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Forums - Sony - Driveclub runs at 1080p 30fps

SvennoJ on 02 May 2014
curl-6 said:
KylieDog said:

It isn't a delayed response if you see something sooner and react sooner because of it, as higher res does.

Also laughing at your last sentance.  Like I haven't ever ripped into a Sony game.  Your argument fails.

30fps = half as many updates as 60fps. That doesn't just go for reacting to distant objects, but also for everything else, from turning to braking.

Still not convinced the extra 16ms doesn't matter for response time? Try this http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/
See what your response time is in the best of situations, fixating on a big full color change with your finger hovering over the mouse button. I can't get below 245ms, nor am I very consistent, I'm old. Identifying something specific happening on screen and making a decision what to do about it takes a lot longer, that 16ms is negligible.

The human brain is a wonderful thing in how it manages with physical time delays, consantly tricking you into believing that what you see, what you hear, what you feel, what you do are all synchronized perfectly. Your brain is constantly predicting what is going to happen to be able to have your fingers respond in time. Focussing on 30fps vs 60fps for response time is focussing on smallest part of the problem. Lag starts with you, followed by display lag, input lag, and finally 30fps vs 60fps.



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curl-6 on 02 May 2014
SvennoJ said:
curl-6 said:
KylieDog said:
 

It isn't a delayed response if you see something sooner and react sooner because of it, as higher res does.

Also laughing at your last sentance.  Like I haven't ever ripped into a Sony game.  Your argument fails.

30fps = half as many updates as 60fps. That doesn't just go for reacting to distant objects, but also for everything else, from turning to braking.

Still not convinced the extra 16ms doesn't matter for response time? Try this http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/
See what your response time is in the best of situations, fixating on a big full color change with your finger hovering over the mouse button. I can't get below 245ms, nor am I very consistent, I'm old. Identifying something specific happening on screen and making a decision what to do about it takes a lot longer, that 16ms is negligible.

The human brain is a wonderful thing in how it manages with physical time delays, consantly tricking you into believing that what you see, what you hear, what you feel, what you do are all synchronized perfectly. Your brain is constantly predicting what is going to happen to be able to have your fingers respond in time. Focussing on 30fps vs 60fps for response time is focussing on smallest part of the problem. Lag starts with you, followed by display lag, input lag, and finally 30fps vs 60fps.

Twice as many frames a second is still a difference you can feel; not so much in individual responses but in the continuous experience.

Honestly, it's crazy that people are even arguing that 30fps vs 60fps isn't a significant difference for a fast paced racer.



Player2 on 02 May 2014
KylieDog said:
 


You know that is visual updates only right?  What you do on the controller is independant of what is on screen.  How do you think people do 1 frame links in SSFIV when it is only 30fps.

Lots of practice (how do you think people do just frames in Tekken and Soul Calibur) and buffering I guess. And like every proper fighting game Super Street Fighter IV runs at 60 fps.



Player2 on 02 May 2014
KylieDog said:
Player2 said:
KylieDog said:
 


You know that is visual updates only right?  What you do on the controller is independant of what is on screen.  How do you think people do 1 frame links in SSFIV when it is only 30fps.

Lots of practice (how do you think people do just frames in Tekken and Soul Calibur) and buffering I guess. And like every proper fighting game Super Street Fighter IV runs at 60 fps.


Try playing on the 3DS.  Can still do 1 frame links even though it 30fps (unless disable 3D in the menu).

If physics are linked to the framerate 30 fps gives you an input window of double the size so it makes 1 frame links easier, not harder.



Player2 on 02 May 2014
KylieDog said:
Player2 said:
KylieDog said:


Try playing on the 3DS.  Can still do 1 frame links even though it 30fps (unless disable 3D in the menu).

If physics are linked to the framerate 30 fps gives you an input window of double the size so it makes 1 frame links easier, not harder.


You mean inputs, and they aren't.  That is the point.

Okay, I'll try to explain the situation:

You're claiming that it's easier for people to do 1 frame links because the game runs internally (and registers commands) at 60 fps but displays only 30 fps.

I'm not saying that the game isn't running that way, but that your logic is flawed because if the game ran at 30 fps internally then you have 33.3ms to introduce the command at the right time instead of 16.6ms and therefore 1 frame links would be easier.



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WebmasterX on 02 May 2014

Is incredible the community gamers...Now, game at 30fps is better because said a studio...



Player2 on 02 May 2014
KylieDog said:
Player2 said:
KylieDog said:


You mean inputs, and they aren't.  That is the point.

Okay, I'll try to explain the situation:

You're claiming that it's easier for people to do 1 frame links because the game runs internally (and registers commands) at 60 fps but displays only 30 fps.

I'm not saying that the game isn't running that way, but that your logic is flawed because if the game ran at 30 fps internally then you have 33.3ms to introduce the command at the right time instead of 16.6ms and therefore 1 frame links would be easier.


It doesn't work like that.  How many times this need be said.  That would completely change frame properties of moves.

That doesn't mean that the recovery of the previous move + execution of the next = hitstun + 1 scenario won't exist at all at 30 fps. We would have different 1 frame combos and those would be easier to execute because the game's chronon would be bigger.



Zekkyou on 02 May 2014
J_Allard said:
Less than 1080p60 is ok in some situations. Those situations being a PS4 game. I can't believe people are arguing being able to see the track better in 1080p over a more fluid 60 frames per second, as if racing games were just impossible on the last.. idk, every console generation ever.

I wonder if this is a Sony thing pushing all their games to be 1080p over a better frame rate.
SvennoJ said:
Fun thread, lots of misinformation.

DC: It has day/night cycle, just not locked to real time. You can specify the time of day and the rate at which time passes, same as Gran Turismo (for the tracks that support it) I'm sure you can set time progression to real as well, but as they stated, it's rather boring unless you plan on racing for hours.

30fps does not automatically mean less controller feedback. The physics updates and controller polling are not locked to the output frame rate. Forza updates it's physics at 360hz for example. If it is locked to the frame rate, well that's rather bad programming.

What does matter is input lag, NFS shift also updates at 180hz, yet in Shift 2 due to input dampening the lag really starts throwing you off at higher speeds (150ms). No clue what the input lag will be for DC, hopefully closer to 83ms like NFS hot pursuit. (For comparison Burnout paradise at 60fps has the fastest response in console racers at 66ms while Forza horizon at 30fps was 100ms. I still didn't have any problems with Forza Horizon anyway)

Even if controller input was locked to the frame rate, the difference between 30fps and 60fps at 300kph is 1.4m, really doesn't make a difference when you have to start braking hundreds of meters before the turn. And for avoiding sudden obstacles, you're reaction speed is about 1.5 sec, or 125m. For anything that doesn't appear sudden, higher resolution will help you to better judge when to start braking and where to position yourself for a corner. Driving at high speed is about planning ahead, not sudden quick movements.

Anyway if you're really concerned about lag, you should be playing on a CRT monitor. The whole 16ms vs 33ms reaction time debate becomes quite pointless when you use the average lcd tv to play on.


Sal.Paradise on 02 May 2014

Definitely bookmarking this thread



fps_d0minat0r on 02 May 2014
WebmasterX said:
Is incredible the community gamers...Now, game at 30fps is better because said a studio...


no we are saying a game isnt bad because its at 30.

The sad thing is most people coming here to criticise have in the past defended games which run at 20... which are not even 1080p.... but thats the point where all of a sudden it no longer matters and they feel like having a conversation on how fun the game is.