By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Devs React to DX 12 Doubling Xbox One GPU Speed Claims; PS4 ICE Programmer: Be Suspicious of Claims

Pemalite on 08 April 2014
Solid-Stark said:
It should be obvious that advancements in API's will bring improvements in performance. However, saying the XOne will be getting 2x more power is very misleading. Real world improvements will be anywhere between 5-20% which is still significant!


It *could* be a game changer, it could be a flop, regardless, take anyones claim of either with a large grain of salt, not enough information out right now, except for what essentially constitutes as teasers from Microsoft.

Mr_No said:
Even if DirectX 12 improves performance to the Xbox One, will there be any risk of overheating like one of the quotes in the OP? If it's prone to overheating, I'm not sure it'll be worth it. The Xbox One is good as it is right now.

No.
The hardware isn't actually doing extra work, the software stack potentially just got more effecient, besides Microsoft actually over-engineered the Xbox One's cooling solution anyway.

Xenobot said:
JayWood2010 said:

As i said before, we know DX12 is going to help improve XBO's performance, that is a given.

You are wrong.

DX12 is going to help improve crappy use of DX11.

If developer A made game using DX11 ver of XBO and it is good, you can count on less then 10% of performance improvement.

But developer B wasted all of XBO power by using it WRONG. Have no fear - some of common mistakes will be automaticly removed by DX12.

And That's How I See It.

Just like on android. Since android API 8 (or 9) all views are automaticly hardware accelerated. The same phone on android 2.3 is much faster then using android 2.1

 

Direct X 11 isn't crappy.
It's actually a fantastic API, it's easy to use, lots of documentation and every major game engine pretty much supports it.

The main problem with Direct X 11 or any high-level API for that matter is that in order to abstract the hardware in such a way so that developers can interface with it easier, something has to give, usually that's in the form of performance.

Low Level API's are typically harder to build games for as developers need to get into the nitty gritty more, however that comes with it some extra speed.

With Direct X 12, Microsoft intends to bridge the gap somewhat, they're attempting to have the ease-of use that a high-level API brings but with the speed that a Low-Level API has, it's actually something that's never been done before, will they pull it off? Who knows.

But before ANYONE jumps to conclusions regarding speed and capability estimations... Just remember, it's not available yet, there is no data, so there is a high probability you're simply wrong.

etking said:

DX12 will be twice as fast as DX11 but the X1 does not use DX at all in most cases. The low level API that is being used by most developers already has the speed of DX12 right now.

Only tech demos written in DX will be faster but no actual games because they are allready written in a low level, mantle-like API.

There will be no speed improvement for X1 games, only the idie games and tech demos written in DX will benefit.

You, nor I, nor any developer actually knows that for sure, again Direct X 12 isn't out yet, we have no idea how fast or slow it really is and what features it may or may not support, for all we know it may exceed the Xbox One's low level API in several areas or it may not.

ICStats said:
^ AMD & nVidia add game specific patches and workarounds in drivers. It's not exactly the same thing.

Of course drivers themselves can and do get better, and boost perf. Especially in CPU bound code, better drivers and new features can reduce CPU load significantly.

If a game is already GPU throughput limited, then a driver change is less effective.

For example getting a game from 720p to 1080p uses 2X more GPU throughput, increasing load on shaders, texture units, memory bandwidth, and ROPs. Drivers can sometimes compile better shaders, but they can't increase the other resources.


AMD and nVidia's drivers also have more lines of code than the Windows Kernel, they're stupidly complex pieces of software.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Around the Network
VanceIX on 08 April 2014

I see a 20-30% gain at max, and that once developers have gotten used to it, which won't be for a while.



                                                                                                               You're Gonna Carry That Weight.

Xbox One - PS4 - Wii U - PC

Machiavellian on 08 April 2014
etking said:

DX12 will be twice as fast as DX11 but the X1 does not use DX at all in most cases. The low level API that is being used by most developers already has the speed of DX12 right now.

Only tech demos written in DX will be faster but no actual games because they are allready written in a low level, mantle-like API.

There will be no speed improvement for X1 games, only the idie games and tech demos written in DX will benefit.

From my understanding there is no low level API for the X1 instead just extra call within the DX APi that the X1 uses.  People keep saying that the X1 already does what DX12 does but is there an actual developer who can verify this.  Speculation is all well and good but its nice to get actual confirmation.  Also, do we know exactly what low level calls that the current DX API does compared to what DX12 will allow.  Are those calls more efficient, better implemented etc.  There is a host of unanswered questions on that part of the subject which it appears no one has an answer.

Anyone making claims that the current DX already does what DX12 does without actually coding to either probably should not state their opinion as fact.

Also there isn't any confirmation on what is included within the current API for the X1 compared to DX12.  Without that knowledge I would say no one on this forum really knows what the effect will be from DX12.



bananaking21 on 08 April 2014
Conegamer said:
Things are getting a touch heated in here. Let's turn things down a little, please!


NO!! im gonna make things soooo hot in here!! 

 

 

 

 



method114 on 08 April 2014
VanceIX said:
I see a 20-30% gain at max, and that once developers have gotten used to it, which won't be for a while.


Can you tell me what anime the second half of you picture is from? I know some of it is full metal.



Around the Network
Jereel Hunter on 08 April 2014
trixiemafia86 said:
Console API's always get better with time. DX12 is progression. this is why games got better last gen with time and this gen is no different. Xbone performance gain due to better tools is expected with time and is not limited to only the xbone. Wii U tools will get better too, so will ps4's. The "war" is caused by xbone fans thinking only the xbone will improve in time because of DX12, when its normal for all console api's to get better. The people who should rightfully rejoice the most are actually PC gamers as low level access to hardware will actually benefit them the most.

This is how it is: Powerful PCs will always do graphics better. DX12 will even increase the gap between PC and Consoles.
Anything the Xbone will be able to do due to DX12, will be done [better] on the PS4 too as the PS4 api advances.


Really? So the people who argue, deny and berate a statement are not causing the 'war', its someone who makes a statement? 



errorpwns on 08 April 2014
drkohler said:
errorpwns said:
vivster said:

Evading the question are we?

You say you can't call any numbers but attack anyone who says zero or close to zero.

But I'll take away from your answer that you actually believe a 100% increase is possible.

Anyone who says it will be zero is clearly a troll or needs to stop opening their mouth about a subject they simply do not understand. T...

Great way to insult people.

You used the first line to insult everyone being clueless  and then the rest of your posting is proving without any doubt that it is essentially you that doesn't have the slightest clue about the subject.

I have a clue. DirectX11 handles hardware better than DirectX9. The fact directx12 is going to allow for low level access makes it no question the performance will be improved over DirectX12 when correctly used by the developer. By how much? Who knows, but it will make a difference. The proof? Mantle.  As I said if a driver update can give a graphics card up to 20 more FPS in certain games then the low level access directx12 provides will be major.



Fusioncode on 08 April 2014

His comment is actually quite reasonable. He even admits that DX12 could improve XBO performance, he's just skeptical over the lack of details.



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!

trixiemafia86 on 08 April 2014
Jereel Hunter said:
trixiemafia86 said:
Console API's always get better with time. DX12 is progression. this is why games got better last gen with time and this gen is no different. Xbone performance gain due to better tools is expected with time and is not limited to only the xbone. Wii U tools will get better too, so will ps4's. The "war" is caused by xbone fans thinking only the xbone will improve in time because of DX12, when its normal for all console api's to get better. The people who should rightfully rejoice the most are actually PC gamers as low level access to hardware will actually benefit them the most.

This is how it is: Powerful PCs will always do graphics better. DX12 will even increase the gap between PC and Consoles.
Anything the Xbone will be able to do due to DX12, will be done [better] on the PS4 too as the PS4 api advances.


Really? So the people who argue, deny and berate a statement are not causing the 'war', its someone who makes a statement? 

u know what i mean, an action causes a reaction. a statement will drawn responses/arguments/disagreements. simple as that. e'g. "dx12 will make xbone perform on par or better than the ps4 and close the hardware gap" - you don't expect folks to just sit back about a statement like this on a discussion forum, do you.



Smartest nam evila

Current Platforms: HighendPC[rip]/PS4/PS3[rip]/Vita[rip]

Augen on 08 April 2014

Nullius in verba.

All I have to say on such matters.