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Forums - Politics - The Coming Obamacare Shock for 170 Million Americans

Mr Puggsly said:
the2real4mafol said:
Should of just funded the healthcare with taxes like the UK. You lot are only paying for a bloated army right now, a couple wars and some fascist mass spying organisations. Good priority of American government with so many in poverty!


American Poverty = Living in better conditions than most of the world with an opportunity to get out of poverty

Tell that to the poor in places like Detroit, Chicago or LA or any big city. If you're born poor you are likely to stay poor unless very lucky. Being poor is a bit of a disadvantage to doing well in the current system. And if American federal government ensured just two things, they would make things alot better for people. $15 minimum wage and a tax funded health service. Hell the money saved from eliminating the free market from core parts of healthcare would save alot of money for all.

Why else does the US spend 17% of GDP on health while European countries with a NHS style system or a mixed public/ private healthcare system spend around 8 to 10% of GDP. It certaintly adds up and its nice to known I can get treatment if I needed it without worrying about the cost.  



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In Spain, my country, we fight against government because they want to privatize health insurance. Here is public and free, funded by taxes, and we are proud of it. I don't understand why people in the US don't want health coverage for all. Money? I think this is very selfish. There is a lot of people who needs it. I don't care democrats or republicans. I vote in Spain and these parties don't exist. But help others is a good action in all cultures in the world. It's universal. Don't let the media manipulate you. I don't like Obama, but I think this project is good for millions of Americans. Millions.



PenguinZ said:

ACA is a disaster.

For starters, my family and I pay more for insurance for noticeably less coverage. My dad can't even get the medicine he needs... insurance won't cover. In addition I got my hours limited at work, because the company doesn't want to cover benefits... I used to get at least 30 hours a week on most weeks and 40+ during the summer season and winter holidays... Now I average 21 hours a week and can't work any more than 28... I lost a huge chunk of income.

Thanks Obama, Congress, and Senate for screwing up.

If you are working for a company that is screwed up enough to cut your hours to avoid paying you benefits, its time to find a better company. I am in California, a state natoriously high priced for pretty much everything. When I went online and looked, for a family of five...mine, I would pay under $200/month for very good insurance with pretty low premiums. Much cheaper than some Cobra plan. Stated that opted out are going to feel the pinch a lot more than the ones who signed on. Expect premiums is those states to sky rocket due to a lack of federal funding. I think people need to quick bitching about something they havent had any experience with yet, quit listening to idiotic politicians and let everything just play out. We are becoming a country of indisusion and infighting to the point of becoming stale.



the2real4mafol said:
Mr Puggsly said:


American Poverty = Living in better conditions than most of the world with an opportunity to get out of poverty

Tell that to the poor in places like Detroit, Chicago or LA or any big city. If you're born poor you are likely to stay poor unless very lucky.

Its not about luck, its about working hard and developing skills.

That's how you get out of poverty and get opportunities.



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the2real4mafol said:
Mr Puggsly said:
the2real4mafol said:
Should of just funded the healthcare with taxes like the UK. You lot are only paying for a bloated army right now, a couple wars and some fascist mass spying organisations. Good priority of American government with so many in poverty!


American Poverty = Living in better conditions than most of the world with an opportunity to get out of poverty

Tell that to the poor in places like Detroit, Chicago or LA or any big city. If you're born poor you are likely to stay poor unless very lucky. Being poor is a bit of a disadvantage to doing well in the current system. And if American federal government ensured just two things, they would make things alot better for people. $15 minimum wage and a tax funded health service. Hell the money saved from eliminating the free market from core parts of healthcare would save alot of money for all.

Why else does the US spend 17% of GDP on health while European countries with a NHS style system or a mixed public/ private healthcare system spend around 8 to 10% of GDP. It certaintly adds up and its nice to known I can get treatment if I needed it without worrying about the cost.  

Being born poor in the current system is a disadvantage in any part of the country and sadly people look to government for a solution to these problems. Government restrictions on labor in the forms of licenses, minimum wage and other regulatory burdens make it near impossible for those without wealthy parents and government priveleges to work their way up.



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SlayerRondo said:
theprof00 said:
I dunno really much about this whole thing, but I feel like the free market will take care of this price increase.
If I were an insurer, I'd just keep the same rates and eat all the other insurer's dropouts.

I really don't understand why they are going up in premiums.

Because the number of things the insurance companies are required to provide coverage for has increased taking away the choice for policy holders.

I don't support people being required to pay for any type of coverage but some of the things they are required to cover are completely absurd.

while aca does it all for cheaper?
To me this looks just like all the insurance companies are making a cash grab.

Bet we'll see record profits this year.



theprof00 said:
I dunno really much about this whole thing, but I feel like the free market will take care of this price increase.
If I were an insurer, I'd just keep the same rates and eat all the other insurer's dropouts.

I really don't understand why they are going up in premiums.

There are two major reasons.

 

1) For one, for insurance to work, it has to cost more then treatment will.  Since this law now makes it so that sick people can sign up whenever they want for healthcare.   It has to go up quite a bit.

Since someone who is middle class or just above medicaid can more or less just pay the fine, and jump on healthcare whenever they need.

Considering that health insurers never made much of a profit to begin with, this is a huge jump.

Which is basically what rich people did anyway.   

 

2) The ACA is subsidizing the middle and upper class so you don't have to pay more then a percentage of what you make in income for brozne and silver plans.

Meaning it's impossible to undercut in these plans because the government is going to pay for everything over anyway.

 

Meaning healthcare companies will max out these premiums within reason.



theprof00 said:
SlayerRondo said:
theprof00 said:
I dunno really much about this whole thing, but I feel like the free market will take care of this price increase.
If I were an insurer, I'd just keep the same rates and eat all the other insurer's dropouts.

I really don't understand why they are going up in premiums.

Because the number of things the insurance companies are required to provide coverage for has increased taking away the choice for policy holders.

I don't support people being required to pay for any type of coverage but some of the things they are required to cover are completely absurd.

while aca does it all for cheaper?
To me this looks just like all the insurance companies are making a cash grab.

Bet we'll see record profits this year.


Actually, it's been my expericne that the ACA plans are far more expensive then non exchange plans due to the subsidies offered for ACA plans.


Which is bad news because a lot of people are ONLY using the ACA website as a source for healthcare information, because they thought it was supposed to be a comprhensive exchange that everything was on.

One of the big defense manuevers of the ACA was to scour basically every single insurer with someone who complained in a news story, to find them a cheaper rate.  (Even then, they weren't that cheap in a lot of cases.)

Something most people don't really have the time for.



the2real4mafol said:
Mr Puggsly said:
the2real4mafol said:

 

Tell that to the poor in places like Detroit, Chicago or LA or any big city. If you're born poor you are likely to stay poor unless very lucky. Being poor is a bit of a disadvantage to doing well in the current system. And if American federal government ensured just two things, they would make things alot better for people. $15 minimum wage and a tax funded health service. Hell the money saved from eliminating the free market from core parts of healthcare would save alot of money for all.

 


To me likely means 50%+. 

 

This seems.... pretty decent to me quite honestly.

 

Now lets compare this to the UK... since it's where your from and has the things you find.

I can't find an exact equal comparison, but I can find two that are similar covering both ends... and they're on one chart.

 

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2011/03/social-mobility-income-inequality-resolution-foundation-report/

In both the 90's and 2000's, the UK had MORE poor people stuck in the lowest quintile then the United States, in the decade between 96 and 2005.  

Despite the UK's public healthcare and higher minium wage.  Considering that both ends find the same problem it's highly unlikely that 96-2005 Britian would do any better in a comparison then 1990-1999 and 2000-2009

 

and that's not even counting the fact that just... way more rich people choose to live in the United States then other countries, which will stretch out the quintile curve compaired to if you used something better then relative mobility.



thismeintiel said:
Kasz216 said:
Augen said:
I can only speak anecdotally, but my insurance went up 30% and my coverage became significantly worse to point it is pointless in 99% of scenarios. The main issue with healthcare here is it is so expensive so many people I know self medicate. Had seven stitches a few years back and it was $3000, $1700 after my old insurance paid $1300. How does that make any sense? Of course under new plan I would pay all of it so if I get cut I just get a scar now. It is easily the big thing we do far worse than so many other comparable countries.

I had a similar expierence.


My healthcare premium went up over 300% with no added benefits.

That said, i ended up on medicaid.  Not actually happy about it.

I'd rather pay for healthcare... but i'm not paying > 1 paycheck for it... and subsidies have a price floor... for whatever reason.

 

They may as well just go full out health coverage.   Rather then making it so tons of people have to pay more, just so a very small few can get cheaper health insurance that's probably still below the level they need.

 

 

 

 

Well, that seems to be the problem with a lot of the policies of this administration (other administrations, as well.)  They say they are doing this or that for the poorest of citizens, but in the end it barely helps them, and instead hurts the middle class.  Same goes for the large hike in minimum wage to ~$10 they want, as well.  Sure, the minimum wage going up seems great for those just starting, or those poor people who make only a little above minimum wage.  But, what happens is the cost of doing business goes up, so businesses have to raise prices on everything.  Eventually, the poor people realize they are barely able to afford more than what they previously did.  So, again, it hurts the middle class who are 100% not getting the same ~$3 raise the minimum wage folks got, so they can actually afford less.

Businesses won't have to raise prices on everything. Compare McDonald's prices from the US to, say, Australia, where cost-of-living is about the same but minimum wage is higher. Actual prices don't go up that much.

The price rises will be minimal compared to the real money in people's pockets, especially poor people who actually spend their money rather than just shunt it into some hedge fund like the rich. The net effect would be quite beneficial, but for the bitching of businesses who only see the short-term shock to their bottom lien.



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