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Forums - Politics Discussion - Obama: Ignoring Russian Aggression Would Have Global Consequences

 

What does Obama hope to accomplish? alterior motive?

I will post below. 29 14.29%
 
To calm the situation down 67 33.00%
 
See results 100 49.26%
 
Total:196

Ukraine isn't our problem. Europe is big enough to protect its own allies...



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Russia did what they had to do. Not saying I support what they did, but from their POV, Crimea is important to them regionally and historically, whereas it means nothing to the rest of the world, so they moved in and took it. It doesn't matter who the president of the US is because they did the same thing to Bush with Georgia.

The bottom line is no one is dumb enough to go to war over Crimea, a region where the majority of people are ethnically Russian to begin with and Russia knows that. Russia will pay a heavy price for this though, probably more than they are willing to admit. The sanctions on Russian banks in particular stings more than Putin will ever admit.

Now that all economies are globally linked you can't just going running around doing whatever you want without threat of sanctions -- well unless you're the US, lol.



I haven't been following this too closely, but last I heard, Ukraine was handling themselves pretty well...no need for military intervention...

This was a huge mistake by Russia and the United States don't need to start flexing to prove anything...



haxxiy said:

Nem said:
And yes i know, that there are economic interestes and bad exemples from the US, but that doesnt make Russia right.


It does make what Obama said wrong, though. For long the US has showcased that only might makes it right, as it always have been throughout human history, no matter how much they claim otherwise (as anyone can easily testify just googling the "democracy meme"). This year Russia is going to claim top spot as the largest GDP PPP on Europe, and has modernized her army over the last decade all the way to top three status worldwide.

Unlike as late as ten years ago, the US can be challenged by both Russia and China on the international scenario, thus ending its status as the world's sole leading hard power it had since 1991. You might think the US dropping democracy is funny, and Russia or China doing the same is scary, but back 30 or 40 years ago many countries actually messed with international politics like that. It's no different this time around, we just aren't used to it.

In time, the Crimean question will be no more of a "terrible precedent" than Indonesia annexing West New Guinea, or Turkey invading Cyprus, or North Vietnam annexing South Vietnam, or the PRC becoming the real China and Taiwan being sidelined by almost everyone.  Again, the illusion who arose after the end of the cold war that things on the 21st century are going to be any different politically, or better...

 

The global environment has been changing in that regard, however. Compare the amount of unilateral annexations or even border wars from Post WWII world to the pre WWII world.

All Crimea shows, in the end, is the continuing trend of ethnic gerrymandering and factionalism that has dominated, especially European politics since the fall of the Berlin wall. Russia is taking a majority ethnically Russian territory, much like how Venetia is having a vote to secede from Italy (nonbinding), or the Basques, Flemish, Scots, Catalonians, Chechens, Bosnian Serbs, Albanian expats, the mess with Hungary right now.

That it gives Putin an excuse to flex his muscles is largely aside the point. He wouldn't have gotten away with this if Crimea was solidly, ethnic Ukrainian.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

dandd said:
Thank goodness Obama had a foresight to scrap the missle defense system.. Things might be a bit different with that system in place. Obama will piss and moan, but Russia knows he is a weak leader.

Russia fired what missiles? Aside from a few shady firefights with irregulars, who did Russia kill at all? How did this act really improve Russia's defense situation, except in guaranteeing access to Sevastopol in perpetuity? (access they already had, mind).


The folks using this to score cheap political points irritate me.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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I don't see a thing Obama could do and not shoot himself in the foot? Military is not an option. Diversifying energy sources is unrealistic. Diplomatic jibber jabber do nothing. Favourable for the States scenario of Ukraine going the route of Yugoslavia doesn't look good either.

Here's what will happen. Planned presedential elections in May either won't happen or will only heat up the confrontation, which in turn will lead to the backtrack of the events to the February (even Yanukovich might be back, this is not out of the question). By this year's end there will be new presedential elections with the set of old (aside from pro-Nazi and nationalists parties) and new candidates, whoever wins will declare normalization of the situation in Ukraine with actions to follow. Actual legal status of Southern and Eastern parts of Ukraine is irrelevant (federalization or not), but Ukraine de-facto will be in one piece (minus Crimea). This effectively will end Ukrainian crisis, or at least political crisis, economy holes won't go away that easily.

 



Mr Khan said:

All Crimea shows, in the end, is the continuing trend of ethnic gerrymandering and factionalism that has dominated, especially European politics since the fall of the Berlin wall. Russia is taking a majority ethnically Russian territory, much like how Venetia is having a vote to secede from Italy (nonbinding), or the Basques, Flemish, Scots, Catalonians, Chechens, Bosnian Serbs, Albanian expats, the mess with Hungary right now.

That it gives Putin an excuse to flex his muscles is largely aside the point. He wouldn't have gotten away with this if Crimea was solidly, ethnic Ukrainian.

I've already pointed out holes in your idea of the events being an ethnic conflict, but I could repeat -- this is wrong perspective or at least not good enough to explain it in the best way possible. Referendum in Crimea should have shown that already with 25% of Crimenians being Ukrainians whatever they understand by it. Unless of course you like badgenome think that it's all a set-up. If that's so, well... I can't beat faith with arguments.



sorry to ask but what change if a country is depend on gaz from russia or from U.S ? Look like obama just want the money for U.S to me or i missunderstand how its worded :)

anyway i am from europa and i don't see any war around anytime soon, europa so afraid to go to war now anyway, and i would said U.S too now, they just big talking for nothing.



 

FIGHT!!



I think Obama has nailed the coffin for dems in the next election with how he dealt with Russia. He has made the US look weak. He has shown how naive he is if he thinks russia will stop there, how many land grabs have they done in the last decade? seems like its been stepping up not winding down. I also have to say Sarah Palin said it well, if the United States stops helping out other countries, if we take a back seat, someone will fill that void, and its most likely Russia and China. So the question is how safe do europeans feel with having Russia and China calling the shots over there? I dont think many europeans would want that. I could be wrong, i'm not european, but I wouldn't feel safe with a countries that have been on land grab sprees and military build ups on my front door step unless we are close allies already.