curl-6 said: Soundwave said: curl-6 said: Soundwave said: Most people don't care.  When they buy a video game console they want the one that has all the games. Not one or two good Mario/Zelda games every 2-3 years.  That formula just doesn't work, no one would buy a movie format that only have 3-4 good movies a year on it, why Nintendo thinks this concept works for more expensive game consoles is kind of a mystery to me really.  They do care, the reception to the E3 2012 teaser was overwhelmingly positive. And that's why Wii U needs to be cheaper, so it can be a "companion" console. $99 couldn't convince a lot of people to buy a GCN as a companion console.  If I only have a limited amount of time to spend on video games to begin with, I don't need a companion console, there are a million other things I could spend my money on.  Nintendo needs to get it through their heads that consumers don't sit around waiting for them to get their sh*t together. They are perfectly content without them.  That's cos the GCN was never positioned as a companion console.

No one positions anything as a certain type of console. Consumers decide what the console is, companies can spin PR all they want. 

GameCube was the console you didn't want. Just like the Wii U is today. That's how consumers have looked at these machines and that's the feeling they have about them. 

Mario Kart ain't fixing this trainwreck, that's too much to ask one game to do. At least the GameCube was a proper generational leap for its time, and even better at PS2 visually ... the Wii U ... what the hell is appeal if you already have a 360/PS3 sitting next to your PS4/XB1. 

The "companion console" space is already taken because from what I've noticed a lot of people are keeping their 360/PS3 due to the lack of backwards compatibility and that basically fills that role. 

Soundwave said: No one positions anything as a certain type of console. Consumers decide what the console is, companies can spin PR all they want.  GameCube was the console you didn't want. Just like the Wii U is today. That's how consumers have looked at these machines and that's the feeling they have about them.  Mario Kart ain't fixing this trainwreck, that's too much to ask one game to do.

Who said one game would fix it? Not me. I said Kart + Smash + casual price point + dark epic Zelda.

curl-6 said: Soundwave said: No one positions anything as a certain type of console. Consumers decide what the console is, companies can spin PR all they want.  GameCube was the console you didn't want. Just like the Wii U is today. That's how consumers have looked at these machines and that's the feeling they have about them.  Mario Kart ain't fixing this trainwreck, that's too much to ask one game to do.  Who said one game would fix it? Not me. I said Kart + Smash + casual price point + dark epic Zelda.

It won't fix anything. They can have Zelda show her tits for ten minutes straight in the next Zelda game and that still won't fix Nintendo's issues because they are so deeply rooted. 

The console business has just changed and Nintendo hasn't changed with it, as such they aren't able to adapt to it. The had great success with one big gamble that really payed off in spades with motion control, but even there it was obvious they didn't really know what to do with it after a while as the PS3/360 sure enough started to outsell the Wii by time 2010 rolled around fairly consistently. 

Ironically that pandora's box that they opened with casual gaming might be a bigger threat to Nintendo than Sony/MS ever were, because Nintendo still always had a comfortable, profitable slice of the pie back then, even when PS1/PS2 dominated, but the iOS/Android boom has unquestionably stolen a lot of their thunder, not only the casual audience, but the knife that cuts even deeper -- its taking kids away from Nintendo, which I think cuts them so deep. 

Soundwave said: It won't fix anything. They can have Zelda show her tits for ten minutes straight in the next Zelda game and that still won't fix Nintendo's issues because they are so deeply rooted.  The console business has just changed and Nintendo hasn't changed with it, as such they aren't able to adapt to it. The had great success with one big gamble that really payed off in spades with motion control, but even there it was obvious they didn't really know what to do with it after a while as the PS3/360 sure enough started to outsell the Wii by time 2010 rolled around fairly consistently.

Not the "Wii was a fluke" retcon, that's getting old.

curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: Is that it? The only difference is the mildly higher price? That doesn't even prove that price cuts would make a difference now, unless you think they should have released the GCN at $300 just so they could do more price cuts lol. $200-$300 is not a "mild" difference. It's critical; one's a casual price pont, the other is not. Prior consoles also never had Wii U's lack of a killer app. Based on what? Also the Wii U now always comes bundled with a game. Regardless, how does this prove that price cuts will make difference now? And that proves that the Wii U will sell once it get's a "killer app" how? Based on the market over the last decade. And the definition of a killer app is that it sells systems.

And what about the market is telling you that price cuts are gonna make a difference now? You can beat around the bush all you want, but I'm just gonna keep asking you these questions until I get a straight answer.

And what is the killer app on Wii U going be? Oh let me guess, Mario Kart 8 right? Too bad by your definition, Mario Kart on consoles isn't a killer app, since the systems they've released on have never sold enough to beat out their predecessors.

curl-6 said: Soundwave said: It won't fix anything. They can have Zelda show her tits for ten minutes straight in the next Zelda game and that still won't fix Nintendo's issues because they are so deeply rooted.  The console business has just changed and Nintendo hasn't changed with it, as such they aren't able to adapt to it. The had great success with one big gamble that really payed off in spades with motion control, but even there it was obvious they didn't really know what to do with it after a while as the PS3/360 sure enough started to outsell the Wii by time 2010 rolled around fairly consistently.  Not the "Wii was a fluke" retcon, that's getting old.

You can label it however you want (fluke, miracle, genius stroke, etc. etc.), but the bottom line is Nintendo hasn't been able to repeat it, and have most likely lost all of that audience anyway to tablet/smartphone gaming (sorry, but denial doesn't change this). 

The fact is the Wii's success yesterday doesn't do sh*t for Nintendo today or tomorrow as far as their market outlook. 

Einsam_Delphin said: And what about the market is telling you that price cuts are gonna make a difference now? You can beat around the bush all you want, but I'm just gonna keep asking you these questions until I get a straight answer. And what is the killer app on Wii U going be? Oh let me guess, Mario Kart 8 right? Too bad by your definition, Mario Kart on consoles isn't a killer app, since the systems they've released on have never sold enough to beat out their predecessors.

Or rather, you're going to keep asking un til you get the answer you want to hear. Which isn't going to happen. I've shut down your strawman arguments time and again, you just keep propping up the same irrelevent comparisons.

Soundwave said: curl-6 said: Soundwave said: It won't fix anything. They can have Zelda show her tits for ten minutes straight in the next Zelda game and that still won't fix Nintendo's issues because they are so deeply rooted.  The console business has just changed and Nintendo hasn't changed with it, as such they aren't able to adapt to it. The had great success with one big gamble that really payed off in spades with motion control, but even there it was obvious they didn't really know what to do with it after a while as the PS3/360 sure enough started to outsell the Wii by time 2010 rolled around fairly consistently.  Not the "Wii was a fluke" retcon, that's getting old. You can label it however you want (fluke, miracle, genius stroke, etc. etc.), but the bottom line is Nintendo hasn't been able to repeat it, and have most likely lost all of that audience anyway to tablet/smartphone gaming (sorry, but denial doesn't change this).  The fact is the Wii's success yesterday doesn't do sh*t for Nintendo today or tomorrow as far as their market outlook.

It was genius. A fluke would have been if Iwata's alphabet soup had spelled "try motion controls".

Nintendo current failings are NOT the result of the Wii. They are the result of them stopping being genius in 2011.

curl-6 said: Soundwave said: curl-6 said: Soundwave said: It won't fix anything. They can have Zelda show her tits for ten minutes straight in the next Zelda game and that still won't fix Nintendo's issues because they are so deeply rooted.  The console business has just changed and Nintendo hasn't changed with it, as such they aren't able to adapt to it. The had great success with one big gamble that really payed off in spades with motion control, but even there it was obvious they didn't really know what to do with it after a while as the PS3/360 sure enough started to outsell the Wii by time 2010 rolled around fairly consistently.  Not the "Wii was a fluke" retcon, that's getting old. You can label it however you want (fluke, miracle, genius stroke, etc. etc.), but the bottom line is Nintendo hasn't been able to repeat it, and have most likely lost all of that audience anyway to tablet/smartphone gaming (sorry, but denial doesn't change this).  The fact is the Wii's success yesterday doesn't do sh*t for Nintendo today or tomorrow as far as their market outlook.  It was genius. A fluke would have been if Iwata's alphabet soup had spelled "try motion controls". Nintendo current failings are NOT the result of the Wii. They are the result of them stopping being genius in 2011.

Sure it's genius then. 

Means about as much today as the SNES being genius was when the N64 was getting bent over by the Playstation. 

It's actually a detriment I think that the Wii required "genius" to succeed, because really what that means is the bar has to be set so high to repeat (it has to be genius, your words, after all) it.

Whereas Sony's approach doesn't really require "genius", it just requires a lot of common sense and straight forward execution (like marketing for example). Much easier than sitting around waiting for another "genius" idea (or worse trying to force one). Genius just happens, you don't force it. 

Sony doesn't try to reinvent the wheel, they just go out and execute a hell of a lot better than everyone else most of the time. That's really why they've kicked Nintendo's rear end pretty good for what looks like 3 of 4 gens, and even with the Wii-PS3 gen, they may eventually catch the Wii's 100 million total. 

curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: And what about the market is telling you that price cuts are gonna make a difference now? You can beat around the bush all you want, but I'm just gonna keep asking you these questions until I get a straight answer. And what is the killer app on Wii U going be? Oh let me guess, Mario Kart 8 right? Too bad by your definition, Mario Kart on consoles isn't a killer app, since the systems they've released on have never sold enough to beat out their predecessors. Or rather, you're going to keep asking un til you get the answer you want to hear. Which isn't going to happen. I've shut down your strawman arguments time and again, you just keep propping up the same irrelevent comparisons.

All you've done is dance around my questions and use opinions n anecdotals as arguments. I'm not even taking you seriously at this point! xD