Sharu said:
Talal said:
Is the average person in Russia a homophobe? |
No. In fact most people in Russia don't care about sexual orientation of others. As we say - we don't care what you doing in your beds and in your homes.
...But when those idiots (so called LGBT activists) were saying that thay will go to schools and kindergardens and explain children that they should fusk in the ass... If they do it - it will be heavy casualties. And the new law which gives penalties for propaganda of gay relations to the children - mostly saves these fools from heavy beating.
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Just to point out that reasoning is just absurd... To be clear, I don't see anything unique about Russia there, it was not much different to the US or Western Europe not really that long ago, and not much different to many other countries, including Lithuania who is EU member yet had a similar law recently without Western condemnation (that's what NATO is about, human rights and democracy).
But saying you don't care about what happens in other people's beds, but then happening to intensely care when "non-traditional" sex is neutrally discussed just isn't coherent. Nobody is trying to "convince" anybody to change their ways, it's just about honest open-ness of reality, with homosexuality seen in most animals as well as humans. Nobody is going to be convinced by some sex ed lessons that girls/guys (as appropriate) aren't the hot stuff you want in your bed, nobody would want that because gay people themself have the experience of conforming to a society pretending to have desires they don't really have. Children are just as protected against molestation and any under-age sex is legally prosecuted in the US, although of course the legal definition of "children" includes teenagers who would just like to have sex with each other, whether they are gay or straight, and that is what sex education is about (and that started in the West way before any open-ness to homosexuality).
Ultimately it just seem immoral to ignore the actual experiences of gay people whom you claim to have no problem with their consensual relationships, who can recount their entire childhood and teenage years being fraught with intimidation and oppression, even just bullies who could "sense they were different" even if they hadn't yet realized their "gay-ness". If it's not illegal to be gay, then it shouldn't un-necessarily be hell on earth by suffering the prejudices of people who hate that somebody else might be gay. Trying to rope in things like pedophilia with homosexuality is just so disingenouous, and seems to actively distract from real efforts to protect children from such things, which is often 'heterosexual' in nature.
Anyways, not to rant, but about that law in Russia specifically, did you hear the woman parliamentarian (or something) in Russia who commented that a problem with the law being targetted against "gay propaganda" is that of course homosexuality has a long tradition going back to Greece, nexus of Western civilization as we know it, so it could hardly count as "non-traditional sexuality". (for that matter, Russia itself was apparently much more accepting of it prior to more intense "Europeanization")
Things like this kid getting arrested/fined for waving a rainbow flag or similar seems like a pretty disturbing application of the law. My question would be more productive: Would it fall under the ban on gay propaganda for gay rights advocates and allies to campaign for the abolition of the law and institution of gay rights? It certainly sounds like it to me since that realistically is calling for normalization of homosexuality, but that would then mean that democracy is being limited, if repealing laws or instituting new ones cannot be debated. When I see a guy waving a sign for gay rights being arrested/fined, which is a non-sexually explicit political act not propaganda in kindergartens, that seems like a clear supprssion of democracy, which has broader implications beyond gay rights if you think about it.
