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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii U's eDRAM stronger than given credit?

supernihilist on 18 March 2014
dekatree said:
Pemalite said:
Hynad said:
Pemalite said:
supernihilist said:


hmm no. its actually quite heavy on the GPU. Wind waker is far less demanding than TP bywhich measure?

i clearly remember WW having vastly superior animation and much bigger open wide areas


They were fairly on-par technically.
The main advantage Wind Waker had was the Tessellated Water Planes and the fake-HDR lighting scheme.
Otherwise they both had dynamic lighting/shadowing, cloth physics etc'.

Artistically, that's up to personal opinion, where I personally prefer Twilight Princess, but that's not to say that Wind Waker was graphically simple... It wasn't relatively.


If they're on par technically, why is Wind Waker much, much easier to emulate on Dolphin compared to Twilight Princess?

Will you say it's the emulator's fault?


Because emulation isn't the same as a target machine?

You need to understand emulation before you jump to conclusions.
For instance one instruction on the Wii may be required to be split up into 3-4 or more instructions on the machine doing the emulating, some instructions may only need to be split up into two instructions.
That's also one of the reasons why emulating a game on the PC requires orders of magnitude increases in performance in comparison to the native device to even pull it off.

It also means that Wind Waker may be using more instructions that are easier to emulate, it's not solid proof either way that one game is more demanding than the other.

So no it's not the emulators fault at all, it's the general principle of emulating that's at fault in this regard and there is no possible way around it.

If you want a modern big budget and relatively demanding (For an Unreal Engine powered game!) cel shaded game, look no farther than Borderlands, despite it using the Unreal Engine 3 engine it's still looks better and is more demanding than Unreal Tournament 3, Gears of War, Bioshock 1+2, Brothers in Arms, Medal of Honor, Mass Effect etc' etc' on the PC.

sounds like complete BS, your gonna tell TP a game that came at the end of GC life, is not more techically advanced then a game that came out 4 years before it.


is Skyward sword more demanding than TP?

and that is a 5 year gap. you cant go beyond HW capabilities



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Pemalite on 18 March 2014
dekatree said:

sounds like complete BS, your gonna tell TP a game that came at the end of GC life, is not more techically advanced then a game that came out 4 years before it.

I shall find a brick wall to bash my head against, you completely avoided my point.

Heck, Twilight Princess runs on the Wind Waker engine.
http://au.ign.com/articles/2004/05/12/e3-2004-new-legend-of-zelda-details



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

dekatree on 18 March 2014
supernihilist said:
dekatree said:
Pemalite said:
Hynad said:
Pemalite said:
supernihilist said:


hmm no. its actually quite heavy on the GPU. Wind waker is far less demanding than TP bywhich measure?

i clearly remember WW having vastly superior animation and much bigger open wide areas


They were fairly on-par technically.
The main advantage Wind Waker had was the Tessellated Water Planes and the fake-HDR lighting scheme.
Otherwise they both had dynamic lighting/shadowing, cloth physics etc'.

Artistically, that's up to personal opinion, where I personally prefer Twilight Princess, but that's not to say that Wind Waker was graphically simple... It wasn't relatively.


If they're on par technically, why is Wind Waker much, much easier to emulate on Dolphin compared to Twilight Princess?

Will you say it's the emulator's fault?


Because emulation isn't the same as a target machine?

You need to understand emulation before you jump to conclusions.
For instance one instruction on the Wii may be required to be split up into 3-4 or more instructions on the machine doing the emulating, some instructions may only need to be split up into two instructions.
That's also one of the reasons why emulating a game on the PC requires orders of magnitude increases in performance in comparison to the native device to even pull it off.

It also means that Wind Waker may be using more instructions that are easier to emulate, it's not solid proof either way that one game is more demanding than the other.

So no it's not the emulators fault at all, it's the general principle of emulating that's at fault in this regard and there is no possible way around it.

If you want a modern big budget and relatively demanding (For an Unreal Engine powered game!) cel shaded game, look no farther than Borderlands, despite it using the Unreal Engine 3 engine it's still looks better and is more demanding than Unreal Tournament 3, Gears of War, Bioshock 1+2, Brothers in Arms, Medal of Honor, Mass Effect etc' etc' on the PC.

sounds like complete BS, your gonna tell TP a game that came at the end of GC life, is not more techically advanced then a game that came out 4 years before it.


is Skyward sword more demanding than TP?

and that is a 5 year gap. you cant go beyond HW capabilities

yes it should be, its running on more powerful hardware, and should be using more advanced tech.



dekatree on 18 March 2014
Pemalite said:
dekatree said:

sounds like complete BS, your gonna tell TP a game that came at the end of GC life, is not more techically advanced then a game that came out 4 years before it.

I shall find a brick wall to bash my head against, you completely avoided my point.

Heck, Twilight Princess runs on the Wind Waker engine.
http://au.ign.com/articles/2004/05/12/e3-2004-new-legend-of-zelda-details

all the more reason it should be more advanced,  just compare most sequels that are running on the same engine, there almost always more advanced, compare GTA4 to GTA5, same engine.



Pemalite on 18 March 2014
dekatree said:
Pemalite said:
dekatree said:

sounds like complete BS, your gonna tell TP a game that came at the end of GC life, is not more techically advanced then a game that came out 4 years before it.

I shall find a brick wall to bash my head against, you completely avoided my point.

Heck, Twilight Princess runs on the Wind Waker engine.
http://au.ign.com/articles/2004/05/12/e3-2004-new-legend-of-zelda-details

all the more reason it should be more advanced,  just compare most sequels that are running on the same engine, there almost always more advanced, compare GTA4 to GTA5, same engine.


On a graphical fidelity level there ain't much in it between GTA4 and GTA5.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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dekatree on 18 March 2014

for all these fanboys defending the wiiu, isn't sad you guys after a year can't even get games that run as well as 360/ps3, or even worse your getting average 360/ps3 graphics from nintendo but can even get upgrades like like descent AA.



dekatree on 18 March 2014
Pemalite said:
dekatree said:
Pemalite said:
dekatree said:

sounds like complete BS, your gonna tell TP a game that came at the end of GC life, is not more techically advanced then a game that came out 4 years before it.

I shall find a brick wall to bash my head against, you completely avoided my point.

Heck, Twilight Princess runs on the Wind Waker engine.
http://au.ign.com/articles/2004/05/12/e3-2004-new-legend-of-zelda-details

all the more reason it should be more advanced,  just compare most sequels that are running on the same engine, there almost always more advanced, compare GTA4 to GTA5, same engine.


On a graphical fidelity level there ain't much in it between GTA4 and GTA5.

 

Get your eyes checked, i can't even play GTA4 cause how ugly it looks compared to 5, its like it came from a different generation.



dekatree on 18 March 2014
curl-6 said:
SubiyaCryolite said:
curl-6 said:
SubiyaCryolite said:
DevilRising said:

People that think showing pics of a game that has a dark/gritty/"realistic" art style vs. pics of a game with a more simplistic/colorful/cartoon art style is somehow "proof" of one piece of hardware being better than another, always have and always will be laughable. As in funny as hell.

You may have missed this. The new trend from your camp is Nintendo games (cartoony) don't push Nintendo hardware. I disagree based on Galaxy(Wii) and Twilight Princess (GC) but hey.

But grass in super mario is different to grass in xenoblade which in turn is different to grass in Crysis 1. Same goes for dust, fire and water. There is some truth to those statements.

All grass is equal but some grass is more equal than others. You think this has no effect on rendering demand?

"Your camp"? Would you listen to yourself?

For Pete's sake stop taking this so seriously and being such a passive aggressive fountain of negativity.

 

No, its a new trend, such assertions have been brushed aside numerous times before. DevilRising did the exact same thing. A lot of fans are disagreeing with you in that thread you created.

I remember you quoting every "non anymous" 2D game creator when the WiiU secret developer article first came out as a counter to his largely negative opinions. You were still firmly in lazy dev land at that point. Now you agree with him.

You argue that Trine 2 is pushing the system hardest yet its enhancements aren't a generational gap above the 360 version if the same game.

You argue that all of Nintys 60fps titles aren't pushing the system. So are you basically saying the systems best looking games will all be 720p30 and all that 1080p secret sauce theories are a Pipedream?

Basically 720p30 like last gens best games. Yet you get offended when anyone states that the machines power is barely a step up from last gen?

Where do you stand on the U? No flip flopping. In black and white. Plain and simple. Its reasonable to expect 1080p60/30 from a PS4. Reasonable to expect 900p30/60 from a X1. What is reasonable for a U.

You're missing the point. The fact that you see this as "camps" and treat it like some kind of high school clique war shows you're taking all this far too seriously, and you're making the forums a less pleasant place with your hostility. And you're projecting; it's you who feels the need to try to turn this in to some kind of passive aggressive mud flinging session at every opportunity.

The secret dev article cannot be considered gospel behind the veil of anonymity, but some of what is said tallies with what named developers have stated. So while it is not as reliable a source as a named dev, some of its claims seem to be believable, even if others are unsubstantiated. 

Trine 2 is the best technical example so far, (It's confirmed to be beyond PS3/360's capabilities) but it is not pushing the system's limits, because it's a launch title not made from the ground up. No game made for Wii U so far is pushing its limits, because there are no graphically ambitious ones built from the ground up yet.

Think about it; how many consoles were maxed out in their first 16 months?

If you'd read my posts you'd know I have NEVER claimed that Wii U will become 1080p standard. I believe as a I always have; that  (A) Wii U's larger RAM and more modern GPU will allow it to produce games with improved textures and polish over PS3/360, similar to, say, the Gamecube/Xbox's advantage over PS2, and (B) that Wii U's graphics will improve with time, just like any console, so what we've seen so far is not its full power.

And the idea that generations are defined by huge graphical leaps died a decade ago.

you honestly believe this BS, developers lie all the time to make the wiiu look better then it is, ubi, activision, and vigil said there games would run much better on wiiu, and would not be possibe on 360/ps3 and when they came out, they ran worse and looked worse, you reemember COD, rayman legend, dark siders, ninja gaiden razors edge and AC4, so i would not trust  developers, trine 2 is the perfect game to show the wiiu stengths cuase it doesn't require cpu work, and it shows the wiiu doing 720p while 360/ps3 achieves this 95% of the time stated by the developer, wow look at that advantage, there much more technically advanced games on both 360/ps3 and even wiiu. while the ps4 shows a 9x advantage in trine 2 with 3d support.



curl-6 on 18 March 2014
dekatree said:
curl-6 said:
dekatree said:

I find this very funny myself, especially when you bold the 352 gflops part, i mean you look at the 360/ps3 specs and the exclsuives like halo 4, uncharted 3, last of us, forza horizone and god of war 3 easily look better then baynetta 2, 3d mario world, and mario kart, but he can't undertsand how a 1.5x more powerful gpu, 2x the ram and 3 times the edram, can run those games, he's got to be a using some mario mushrooms, i can maybe understand if he said 176gflops gpu but not 352gflops gpu thats way more effeciante, even though neogaf already posted the confirmed specs, and he posts at neogaf so he knows that posting false infromation thats not back up by proof will get you permabanned quick on neogaf.

Don't you have anything better to do with yourself, Ninjablade?

yes i do, but the thread just keeps calling me back.

What's the point? After numerous bans and alts, you've long since become a laughing stock on these forums, and you're so easy to spot that you'll just keep getting caught and banned. At this point, we just feel sorry for you.

You're only wasting your time.



dekatree on 18 March 2014
curl-6 said:
dekatree said:
curl-6 said:
dekatree said:

I find this very funny myself, especially when you bold the 352 gflops part, i mean you look at the 360/ps3 specs and the exclsuives like halo 4, uncharted 3, last of us, forza horizone and god of war 3 easily look better then baynetta 2, 3d mario world, and mario kart, but he can't undertsand how a 1.5x more powerful gpu, 2x the ram and 3 times the edram, can run those games, he's got to be a using some mario mushrooms, i can maybe understand if he said 176gflops gpu but not 352gflops gpu thats way more effeciante, even though neogaf already posted the confirmed specs, and he posts at neogaf so he knows that posting false infromation thats not back up by proof will get you permabanned quick on neogaf.

Don't you have anything better to do with yourself, Ninjablade?

yes i do, but the thread just keeps calling me back.

What's the point? After numerous bans and alts, you've long since become a laughing stock on these forums, and you're so easy to spot that you'll just keep getting caught and banned. At this point, we just feel sorry for you.

You're only wasting your time.

isnt that what your doing here wasting time?. the laughing stock to a few fanboys, but i been right on everything

wiiu 176 gflops, on par with current gen, scratch that i can still get better perfomance from my 8 year old 360 on games.

wiiu becoming a big failure and will be retired in 2015, will 99$ can't wait for this to happen so i can laugh some more.

ports continue to be inferior

ps4 doubling wiiu sales in the same time frame

lazy ports continue to be an excuse by nintendo fanboys wont accept nintendo gave them really crappy hardware.

i won all my bets