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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii U's eDRAM stronger than given credit?

dekatree on 18 March 2014
curl-6 said:
dekatree said:

Screenshots don't do justice to its 60fps beauty on a screen through component cables, but let's look at one anyway:

As you can see here, every surface has multilayered shaders; the floor is reflective, refractive, and specular mapped, as is the glass and water, character models are specular mapped, the cylinder in the background is normal mapped, the jetpack causes heat distortion, there's global dyanmic lighting, and it all runs at a v-sync'd 60fps.

No other Wii game so effectively leverages the strengths of its GPU.

thing is your comparing hardware thats basically a souped up gamecube, 12 year old hardware, i'm talking about 360/ps3 generation hardware, xbox/ps2/GC cartoonish graphics were still being pushed, although they were starting to fade, and thats clearly a bull shot i have never seen a wiiu game look so clean.

A cartoon-styled game on Wii U could easily push the system in the same way that Jett Rocket pushes Wii; by doing tons of effects at 60fps.

 the problem with cartoon games is nobody is really make them with a big budget, so any cartoon game that has good art style, and descent tech is gonna be heralded as something that  can't be done or is pushing the console to its limits, the only developer pushing tech and graphics in cartoon games is sega, but that was with sonic on last gen consoles on the wiiu, they really dropped the ball, i don't about t sonic boom though. and with most realisitc games with big budgets you need good AI, what AI do you need in mario where the enemies just walk back and forth.



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curl-6 on 18 March 2014
dekatree said:

 the problem with cartoon games is nobody is really make them with a big budget, so any cartoon game that has good art style, and descent tech is gonna be heralded as something that  can't be done or is pushing the console to its limits, the only developer pushing tech and graphics in cartoon games is sega, but that was with sonic on last gen consoles on the wiiu, they really dropped the ball, i don't about t sonic boom though.

You often don't need as big a budget with cartoon games though, cos instead of trying to reproduce real animations and physics, you just pile on the effects.



dekatree on 18 March 2014
curl-6 said:
dekatree said:

 the problem with cartoon games is nobody is really make them with a big budget, so any cartoon game that has good art style, and descent tech is gonna be heralded as something that  can't be done or is pushing the console to its limits, the only developer pushing tech and graphics in cartoon games is sega, but that was with sonic on last gen consoles on the wiiu, they really dropped the ball, i don't about t sonic boom though.

You often don't need as big a budget with cartoon games though, cos instead of trying to reproduce real animations and physics, you just pile on the effects.

real animation, physics, ai, and yet still we don't have any cartoony games that come close to touch the levels of detail, geometry, lighting/shadows, that realitic games provide.  just look at the pc, do you every see cartoony games, being shown off on powerful pc's.



supernihilist on 18 March 2014
dekatree said:
curl-6 said:
dekatree said:

Screenshots don't do justice to its 60fps beauty on a screen through component cables, but let's look at one anyway:

As you can see here, every surface has multilayered shaders; the floor is reflective, refractive, and specular mapped, as is the glass and water, character models are specular mapped, the cylinder in the background is normal mapped, the jetpack causes heat distortion, there's global dyanmic lighting, and it all runs at a v-sync'd 60fps.

No other Wii game so effectively leverages the strengths of its GPU.

thing is your comparing hardware thats basically a souped up gamecube, 12 year old hardware, i'm talking about 360/ps3 generation hardware, xbox/ps2/GC cartoonish graphics were still being pushed, although they were starting to fade, and thats clearly a bull shot i have never seen a wiiu game look so clean.

A cartoon-styled game on Wii U could easily push the system in the same way that Jett Rocket pushes Wii; by doing tons of effects at 60fps.

 the problem with cartoon games is nobody is really make them with a big budget, so any cartoon game that has good art style, and descent tech is gonna be heralded as something that  can't be done or is pushing the console to its limits, the only developer pushing tech and graphics in cartoon games is sega, but that was with sonic on last gen consoles on the wiiu, they really dropped the ball, i don't about t sonic boom though. and with most realisitc games with big budgets you need good AI, what AI do you need in mario where the enemies just walk back and forth.


funny you say that, specially when a realistic series like AssasinsCreed has the dumbest AIive seen since Goldeneye64. and im not gonna start talking about the ugly visual artifacts, framerate drops, screen tearing and such that plague those games...funny you never see that on a Nintendo game 



curl-6 on 18 March 2014
dekatree said:
curl-6 said:
dekatree said:

 the problem with cartoon games is nobody is really make them with a big budget, so any cartoon game that has good art style, and descent tech is gonna be heralded as something that  can't be done or is pushing the console to its limits, the only developer pushing tech and graphics in cartoon games is sega, but that was with sonic on last gen consoles on the wiiu, they really dropped the ball, i don't about t sonic boom though.

You often don't need as big a budget with cartoon games though, cos instead of trying to reproduce real animations and physics, you just pile on the effects.

real animation, physics, ai, and yet still we don't have any cartoony games that come close to touch the levels of detail, geometry, lighting/shadows, that realitic games provide.  just look at the pc, do you every see cartoony games, being shown off on powerful pc's.

A cartoon game can still push tech.



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Hynad on 18 March 2014
Pemalite said:
supernihilist said:


hmm no. its actually quite heavy on the GPU. Wind waker is far less demanding than TP bywhich measure?

i clearly remember WW having vastly superior animation and much bigger open wide areas


They were fairly on-par technically.
The main advantage Wind Waker had was the Tessellated Water Planes and the fake-HDR lighting scheme.
Otherwise they both had dynamic lighting/shadowing, cloth physics etc'.

Artistically, that's up to personal opinion, where I personally prefer Twilight Princess, but that's not to say that Wind Waker was graphically simple... It wasn't relatively.


If they're on par technically, why is Wind Waker much, much easier to emulate on Dolphin compared to Twilight Princess?

Will you say it's the emulator's fault?



dekatree on 18 March 2014
supernihilist said:
dekatree said:
curl-6 said:
dekatree said:

Screenshots don't do justice to its 60fps beauty on a screen through component cables, but let's look at one anyway:

As you can see here, every surface has multilayered shaders; the floor is reflective, refractive, and specular mapped, as is the glass and water, character models are specular mapped, the cylinder in the background is normal mapped, the jetpack causes heat distortion, there's global dyanmic lighting, and it all runs at a v-sync'd 60fps.

No other Wii game so effectively leverages the strengths of its GPU.

thing is your comparing hardware thats basically a souped up gamecube, 12 year old hardware, i'm talking about 360/ps3 generation hardware, xbox/ps2/GC cartoonish graphics were still being pushed, although they were starting to fade, and thats clearly a bull shot i have never seen a wiiu game look so clean.

A cartoon-styled game on Wii U could easily push the system in the same way that Jett Rocket pushes Wii; by doing tons of effects at 60fps.

 the problem with cartoon games is nobody is really make them with a big budget, so any cartoon game that has good art style, and descent tech is gonna be heralded as something that  can't be done or is pushing the console to its limits, the only developer pushing tech and graphics in cartoon games is sega, but that was with sonic on last gen consoles on the wiiu, they really dropped the ball, i don't about t sonic boom though. and with most realisitc games with big budgets you need good AI, what AI do you need in mario where the enemies just walk back and forth.


funny you say that, specially when a realistic series like AssasinsCreed has the dumbest AIive seen since Goldeneye64. and im not gonna start talking about the ugly visual artifacts, framerate drops, screen tearing and such that plague those games...funny you never see that on a Nintendo game 

no matter hpow dumb the ai is in assains creed is still a generation ahead of the ai in mario games, where the ai doesn't exist.



dekatree on 18 March 2014
curl-6 said:
dekatree said:
curl-6 said:
dekatree said:

 the problem with cartoon games is nobody is really make them with a big budget, so any cartoon game that has good art style, and descent tech is gonna be heralded as something that  can't be done or is pushing the console to its limits, the only developer pushing tech and graphics in cartoon games is sega, but that was with sonic on last gen consoles on the wiiu, they really dropped the ball, i don't about t sonic boom though.

You often don't need as big a budget with cartoon games though, cos instead of trying to reproduce real animations and physics, you just pile on the effects.

real animation, physics, ai, and yet still we don't have any cartoony games that come close to touch the levels of detail, geometry, lighting/shadows, that realitic games provide.  just look at the pc, do you every see cartoony games, being shown off on powerful pc's.

A cartoon game can still push tech.

yes it can but nobody is gonna do it, there is no market for it anymore, as long as it looks great, its just not gonna be pushing any console to its limits.



supernihilist on 18 March 2014
Hynad said:
Pemalite said:
supernihilist said:


hmm no. its actually quite heavy on the GPU. Wind waker is far less demanding than TP bywhich measure?

i clearly remember WW having vastly superior animation and much bigger open wide areas


They were fairly on-par technically.
The main advantage Wind Waker had was the Tessellated Water Planes and the fake-HDR lighting scheme.
Otherwise they both had dynamic lighting/shadowing, cloth physics etc'.

Artistically, that's up to personal opinion, where I personally prefer Twilight Princess, but that's not to say that Wind Waker was graphically simple... It wasn't relatively.


If they're on par technically, why is Wind Waker much, much easier to emulate on Dolphin compared to Twilight princess?

Will you say it's the emulator's fault?

so now the benchmark for Wii games depends on how well Dolphin runs it?

my PC runs better Xenoblade than Zelda Ww btw



Hynad on 18 March 2014
supernihilist said:
Hynad said:
Pemalite said:

They were fairly on-par technically.
The main advantage Wind Waker had was the Tessellated Water Planes and the fake-HDR lighting scheme.
Otherwise they both had dynamic lighting/shadowing, cloth physics etc'.

Artistically, that's up to personal opinion, where I personally prefer Twilight Princess, but that's not to say that Wind Waker was graphically simple... It wasn't relatively.


If they're on par technically, why is Wind Waker much, much easier to emulate on Dolphin compared to Twilight princess?

Will you say it's the emulator's fault?

so now the benchmark for Wii games depends on how well Dolphin runs it?

my PC runs better Xenoblade than Zelda Ww btw

You've got to be lying. Xenoblade is way more demanding than Twilight Princess and Wind Waker.

Back then, I could run Wind Waker in 1080p locked at its native 30fps on a Q9300, HD 5770, and 4GB of 1033mhz DDR3 setup. That build didn't fare as well with Twilight Princess (Gamecube version), and even less so with Xenoblade. So excuse me if I don't trust your claim one bit.