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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii U's eDRAM stronger than given credit?

sc94597 on 28 February 2014
starworld said:
sc94597 said:
Kane1389 said:


Nice job comparing a 2008 game with 2014 game.

Both games were/will be released at comparable periods in their lifecycle. Two years after the release of the console. If the logic that I've seen in other threads in regards to the PS4 and XBOne holds, that they are not optimized enough to show vast improvements over the latest games of last generation, then the same should hold for the Wii U vs. last generation, which means that we should compare games that were released after similar periods of time in their life cycles. If you are to argue that there is software technique advancement, we can always remember that Nintendo games are made with their own proprietary engines and Nintendo didn't develop games with such graphical feats back then. The comparison is not only valid but optimal. 

main problem wih this theory is, both 360/ps3 were so ahead of there time, that garphics needed to actually catch up the hardware, were talking about a 20x jump in power, wiiu at best case scenerio would be a 1.5x jump, which developers have stated its not.

I already addressed that later in my post. Nintendo never developed with these specifications in mind. 



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starworld on 28 February 2014
sc94597 said:
starworld said:
sc94597 said:
Kane1389 said:


Nice job comparing a 2008 game with 2014 game.

Both games were/will be released at comparable periods in their lifecycle. Two years after the release of the console. If the logic that I've seen in other threads in regards to the PS4 and XBOne holds, that they are not optimized enough to show vast improvements over the latest games of last generation, then the same should hold for the Wii U vs. last generation, which means that we should compare games that were released after similar periods of time in their life cycles. If you are to argue that there is software technique advancement, we can always remember that Nintendo games are made with their own proprietary engines and Nintendo didn't develop games with such graphical feats back then. The comparison is not only valid but optimal. 

main problem wih this theory is, both 360/ps3 were so ahead of there time, that garphics needed to actually catch up the hardware, were talking about a 20x jump in power, wiiu at best case scenerio would be a 1.5x jump, which developers have stated its not.

I already addressed that later in my post. Nintendo never developed with these specifications in mind. 


ok were not just talking about nintendo, were talking about all developers.



hated_individual on 28 February 2014

@starworld

You must be salty and/or in denial... GOW 3 and DMC4 looking better than Bayonetta 2? Don't make me laugh.

I guess you have fetish for models that both are low polygon and have low resolution textures in comparison to Bayonetta 2, do you have an eye for detail or you judge by art style?... LMAO

Moderated,

-Mr Khan



starworld on 28 February 2014

 

hated_individual said:
@starworld

You must be salty and/or in denial... GOW 3 and DMC4 looking better than Bayonetta 2? Don't make me laugh.

I guess you have fetish for models that both are low polygon and have low resolution textures in comparison to Bayonetta 2, do you have an eye for detail or you judge by art style?... LMAO

pics are better then words, get some glasses.




sc94597 on 28 February 2014
starworld said:
sc94597 said:
starworld said:
sc94597 said:
Kane1389 said:


Nice job comparing a 2008 game with 2014 game.

Both games were/will be released at comparable periods in their lifecycle. Two years after the release of the console. If the logic that I've seen in other threads in regards to the PS4 and XBOne holds, that they are not optimized enough to show vast improvements over the latest games of last generation, then the same should hold for the Wii U vs. last generation, which means that we should compare games that were released after similar periods of time in their life cycles. If you are to argue that there is software technique advancement, we can always remember that Nintendo games are made with their own proprietary engines and Nintendo didn't develop games with such graphical feats back then. The comparison is not only valid but optimal. 

main problem wih this theory is, both 360/ps3 were so ahead of there time, that garphics needed to actually catch up the hardware, were talking about a 20x jump in power, wiiu at best case scenerio would be a 1.5x jump, which developers have stated its not.

I already addressed that later in my post. Nintendo never developed with these specifications in mind. 


ok were not just talking about nintendo, were talking about all developers.

It is quite evident that the only games of any worth on the Wii U are Nintendo games. Nevertheless, if Nintendo (who has no experience) can pull off games equally impressive as the best on the previous consoles, then it only makes sense that they can do much more as they understand programming techniques. Furthermore, your argument still holds for the Wii U (and next generation consoles in general), there will be more techniques to be found as time progresses. 



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starworld on 28 February 2014
sc94597 said:
starworld said:
sc94597 said:
starworld said:
sc94597 said:
Kane1389 said:


Nice job comparing a 2008 game with 2014 game.

Both games were/will be released at comparable periods in their lifecycle. Two years after the release of the console. If the logic that I've seen in other threads in regards to the PS4 and XBOne holds, that they are not optimized enough to show vast improvements over the latest games of last generation, then the same should hold for the Wii U vs. last generation, which means that we should compare games that were released after similar periods of time in their life cycles. If you are to argue that there is software technique advancement, we can always remember that Nintendo games are made with their own proprietary engines and Nintendo didn't develop games with such graphical feats back then. The comparison is not only valid but optimal. 

main problem wih this theory is, both 360/ps3 were so ahead of there time, that garphics needed to actually catch up the hardware, were talking about a 20x jump in power, wiiu at best case scenerio would be a 1.5x jump, which developers have stated its not.

I already addressed that later in my post. Nintendo never developed with these specifications in mind. 


ok were not just talking about nintendo, were talking about all developers.

It is quite evident that the only games of any worth on the Wii U are Nintendo games. Nevertheless, if Nintendo (who has no experience) can pull off games equally impressive as the best on the previous consoles, then it only makes sense that they can do much more as they understand programming techniques. Furthermore, your argument still holds for the Wii U (and next generation consoles in general), there will be more techniques to be found as time progresses. 


cartoony games are much easier to pull off, they don't need great detail,  AI or great cpu, just look mat what sega has accomplished with sonic graphically on 360/ps3.



sc94597 on 28 February 2014
starworld said:
sc94597 said:
starworld said:
sc94597 said:
starworld said:
sc94597 said:
Kane1389 said:


Nice job comparing a 2008 game with 2014 game.

Both games were/will be released at comparable periods in their lifecycle. Two years after the release of the console. If the logic that I've seen in other threads in regards to the PS4 and XBOne holds, that they are not optimized enough to show vast improvements over the latest games of last generation, then the same should hold for the Wii U vs. last generation, which means that we should compare games that were released after similar periods of time in their life cycles. If you are to argue that there is software technique advancement, we can always remember that Nintendo games are made with their own proprietary engines and Nintendo didn't develop games with such graphical feats back then. The comparison is not only valid but optimal. 

main problem wih this theory is, both 360/ps3 were so ahead of there time, that garphics needed to actually catch up the hardware, were talking about a 20x jump in power, wiiu at best case scenerio would be a 1.5x jump, which developers have stated its not.

I already addressed that later in my post. Nintendo never developed with these specifications in mind. 


ok were not just talking about nintendo, were talking about all developers.

It is quite evident that the only games of any worth on the Wii U are Nintendo games. Nevertheless, if Nintendo (who has no experience) can pull off games equally impressive as the best on the previous consoles, then it only makes sense that they can do much more as they understand programming techniques. Furthermore, your argument still holds for the Wii U (and next generation consoles in general), there will be more techniques to be found as time progresses. 


cartoony games are much easier to pull off, they don't need great detail,  AI or great cpu, just look mat what sega has accomplished with sonic graphically on 360/ps3.

Nintendo doesn't just produce "cartoony games."  Also, it is silly to say that a game with cartoonish visuals doesn't need great AI or doesn't use CPU power. Look at Pikmin, the character models are "cartoony", but you have 100 individual active, not scripted, AI entities that you control, and multiple enemies with their AI. That was one of the feats Nintendo boasted over its competition in the 6th generation.   Super Mario Galaxy had quite extravagant physics systems as well (which is very cpu expensive when not allocated to the GPU.) 



starworld on 28 February 2014
sc94597 said:
starworld said:
sc94597 said:
starworld said:
sc94597 said:
starworld said:
sc94597 said:
Kane1389 said:


Nice job comparing a 2008 game with 2014 game.

Both games were/will be released at comparable periods in their lifecycle. Two years after the release of the console. If the logic that I've seen in other threads in regards to the PS4 and XBOne holds, that they are not optimized enough to show vast improvements over the latest games of last generation, then the same should hold for the Wii U vs. last generation, which means that we should compare games that were released after similar periods of time in their life cycles. If you are to argue that there is software technique advancement, we can always remember that Nintendo games are made with their own proprietary engines and Nintendo didn't develop games with such graphical feats back then. The comparison is not only valid but optimal. 

main problem wih this theory is, both 360/ps3 were so ahead of there time, that garphics needed to actually catch up the hardware, were talking about a 20x jump in power, wiiu at best case scenerio would be a 1.5x jump, which developers have stated its not.

I already addressed that later in my post. Nintendo never developed with these specifications in mind. 


ok were not just talking about nintendo, were talking about all developers.

It is quite evident that the only games of any worth on the Wii U are Nintendo games. Nevertheless, if Nintendo (who has no experience) can pull off games equally impressive as the best on the previous consoles, then it only makes sense that they can do much more as they understand programming techniques. Furthermore, your argument still holds for the Wii U (and next generation consoles in general), there will be more techniques to be found as time progresses. 


cartoony games are much easier to pull off, they don't need great detail,  AI or great cpu, just look mat what sega has accomplished with sonic graphically on 360/ps3.

Nintendo doesn't just produce "cartoony games."  Also, it is silly to say that a game with cartoonish visuals doesn't need great AI or doesn't use CPU power. Look at Pikmin, the character models are "cartoony", but you have 100 individual active, not scripted, AI entities that you control, and multiple enemies with their AI. That was one of the feats Nintendo boasted over its competition in the 6th generation.   Super Mario Galaxy had quite extravagant physics systems as well (which is very cpu expensive when not allocated to the GPU.) 


exactly my point if the orginal wii is doing this in a cartoony game what does that tell you, the wii cpu is was outdated over a decade ago.



ethomaz on 28 February 2014

eDRAM is fast than eSRAM is speed only but it needs more cycles to be updated/refreshed/wrote/read... so the latencies of eSRAM is so better compared with eDRAM.

360's eSRAM was fast than Xbone's eSRAM but the late is better and more expensive.



hated_individual on 28 February 2014
starworld said:

 

hated_individual said:
@starworld

You must be salty and/or in denial... GOW 3 and DMC4 looking better than Bayonetta 2? Don't make me laugh.

I guess you have fetish for models that both are low polygon and have low resolution textures in comparison to Bayonetta 2, do you have an eye for detail or you judge by art style?... LMAO

pics are better then words, get some glasses.

I agree with you that pictures are better than words...

Anyway I am wondering why are you saying the thing to me that you desperatly need? I am puzzled.

Dante in DMC4 in cutscenes has 23827 while in gameplay as devil has measly 13094 polygons compared to Bayonetta with 23000 polygons in original Bayonetta and Dante in DMC:DMC has 20732 polygons thus claiming that DMC4 looks better than Bayonetta and Bayonetta 2 is factually wrong and you used cutscenes for comparison of models rather than in-game as I did.

Kratos at first glance looks amazing, but as I observe it thoroughly I can see that they did an amazing job when comes to textures and I am not talking about detail or resolution of it at all which is rather nothing impressive and we already saw that yet I am talking about how well they covered up lack of detail with its texture work. Kratos alone has 22000 polygons(in-game?) without these two lion headed gauntlets, I estimate that these gauntlets have at least 1K and at best it could be 1.5K by some miracle if they wanted to waste their resources. One teeth on the gauntlet has 18-32 if alone polygons aprox, but since they are connected together thus they save a considerable amount of polygons... I assume for all teeth on one gauntlet you have about 150-200 polygons.

Its art form covers up the flaws very well... 3D master chief/spartan models in latest Halo game doesen't look superior to GOW's 3 Kratos, but in the end they are superior