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Forums - Nintendo - The truth about Nintendo

 

What do you think about Nintendo's attitude?

Awful, they should fail i... 189 14.04%
 
Pretty Bad, they should l... 385 28.60%
 
Not bad, they're just as anybody else 188 13.97%
 
Good, we need more like them 389 28.90%
 
Excellent, they don't need to change one bit 173 12.85%
 
Total:1,324
Zod95 said:
MDMAlliance said:
Zod95 said:

Those are neither videogames (rather educational software) nor developed by Nintendo. I could even take that as a promotion strategy for the real Mario games, which never left Nintendo consoles. Videogame marchandising has many forms and educational software is a poor excuse to counter-argue that Nintendo has tried to create a pronounced environment of exclusivity.

Ironically, I am the one accused of bias.

I tell you what: accuracy is one thing, falsehood is another. Is the OP 100% accurate? Probably not. But does it have blatant lies? So far, it seems it doesn't. Nothing is 100% accurate and even the most professional journalistic articles would be "proven" to hold blatant lies with posters as picky as you commenting on them. You can torture the facts as you want, but that only shows your true colors.


No, you were simply wrong.  You're now trying to redefine what a video game is.  They were clearly video games.  You're also doing your best to avoid replying to me directly because you know that I would just tear it apart.  Your statement was saying Nintendo games.  Mario & Zelda are both Nintendo games, whether or not Nintendo directly developed them or not.  Nintendo had given permission for them to be developed onto the PC.  

Also, Sony and Microsoft is just about the same when it comes to this "exclusivity" you're talking about.  Maybe Microsoft less so... but primarily because Microsoft is a PC software company that has a console brand so it really doesn't make sense to include Microsoft.  

Also, accuracy and falsehood are pretty much hand-in-hand things.  If you aren't 100% accurate, your argument contains false information unless otherwise stated it isn't completely accurate (and you did NOT do this, you in fact claim you were 100% accurate by saying there isn't anything in your OP that is false).

This isn't about being picky.  You're outright changing what you said so it makes it seem like you weren't posting lies.

You want to be picky rather than looking at the context of each statement and the message behind, go ahead. I just reafirm there's a difference between accuracy and falsehood. And, since nothing is 100% accurate, I guess it's pointless to ever telling so whenever an article, an OP or a simple post is published.

If you claim I'm changing what I said, why don't you go look the OP and see whether or not I'm talking about an environment of exclusivity precisely like I am now? See:

"As mentioned earlier, Nintendo has always tried to keep the perceived value of their products as high as possible. That could only have been done with a solid and long-term strategy based on exclusivity and elitism. Not letting any of their games to be launched out of their consoles (not even on PC) was a way to tell the consumer that, no matter what, Nintendo games will ever only be played on Nintendo consoles."

And I haven't avoided replying to you directly. I just quote what I have to. That quote was also (mainly btw) a reply to you.


Except for the fact that the context of what you said doesn't change the fact that you're wrong about that statement.  And the argument of "environment of exclusivity" is also wrong given that Nintendo's recent meeting pretty much outright told us they were considering using non-Nintendo hardware for games.  Maybe not fully, but you seriously cannot expect that from any of the big 3.  

Also, saying nothing is 100% accurate is just a scapegoat for you.  "100% accuracy" here refers to things regarded as truths in history, and since there's little to no other interpretation of these historical facts that counter your absolute statements, I can pretty much say with "100% accuracy" that you're wrong.

You're saying I'm being picky but I'm actually not at all.  I pointed out MANY things in your OP that were wrong.  I actually could have picked out a LOT more if I were trying to be picky.  In reality, you're just deluded, not us.



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Zod95 said:
 

"Nintendo mastered the 3D movement with Mario 64" - This is an opinion, not a fact. I personally think that Sonic Adventure has mastered 3D movement much better than Mario 64.

Non-linear story telling may range from "press X to win" like it is on Heavy Rain (which doesn't mean it is bad) to character full-control like it is on LA Noire. Animations-based gameplay is the opposite of that.

I did play several Nintendo games and I tell you: they are fun but the gameplay is cheap. You, most probably, haven't paid attention to how I defined "cheap gameplay". Read it again, please. I didn't talk about worse or better games, I talked about cheap gameplay, which doesn't scare me at all (what am I afraid of?).

Yes, it is indeed amazing. Nintendo is a good money printer: huge revenues, astronomical profits and obscene ROI are engaging to the eye of any investor.

 

No, Nintendo setting the groundwork for TRUE 3D gaming with Super Mario 64 is a fact. Even several generations later, there are still big budget 3D action and platformer games that to this day struggle to have the quality of controls, physics, camera, level design, and game balance that Mario 64 had.

Sonic Adventure, while seemingly neat (with flashy graphcis) for it's time at DC launch, only paved the way for even more unbalanced, far shittier 3D Sonic attempts in the future. Sonic Adventure was a decent game, but to suggest that it "mastered 3D movement" at all, let alone infer that it did so better than Mario 64, is I'm sorry to say, highly laughable. Sonic has quite simply NEVER worked out very well in 3D. Mario 64 alone was an open, free-form, fully functional 3D world game. Most of Sonic Adventure basically felt like "on-rails" stages, something they've done ever since, and there were many parts where the physics, camera, etc., were straight up broken. It only got worse with SA2 onward. I am not debating Mario vs. Sonic. I am merely pointing out the actual features of both games. The only people on earth who are going to claim that SA is a better game than Mario 64, are massive long-time Sonic fans. And even then, even if you DO personally like Sonic games better than Mario games, which is perfectly fine, I am sure many Sonic fans would likely still concede that Mario 64 was all around the better made game.

 

And regardless, there was certainly nothing "cheap" about it. Your proclimations that Nintendo, their hardware, and what's more, their GAMES, are "cheap", are also highly suspect. If you are just not a big fan of Nintendo games, come out and say so. But to try and make their games, which even from people who are not big Nintendo fans, are usually regarded highly, seem "cheaply made", or that somehow their design or appeal or gameplay is "cheap", is just pointless. And what's more, you state right in this particular post that you have "played a few Nintendo games".....how much is a few? 3? 4? 7? Your wording insenuates (perhaps by accident) that you actually haven't played all that many Nintendo games at all. And IF that is the case, then your raging criticisms of their games and approach to gaming, doesn't honestly hold a whole lot of merit, does it? I am not a fan of Xbox exclusive franchises, but I would never waste my time or make myself look foolish by starting a huge thread post about how I think Microsoft sucks, and why their games are garbage, EVEN though I have very little experience actually playing their games. It's just not worth the time, nor is it terribly wise.



For what it's worth, Hudson Soft developed 3 Mario games on several Japanese home computers, between 1984 and 1986 (Famicom was released in 1983 in Japan, NES in 1985 in NA, and a year later in EU). The games were Punch Ball Mario Bros, Mario Bros Special, and Super Mario Bros Special. I was going to post a link to an article about them, but there's a link to the roms in there, so I don't think I can...

And since someone already pointed out the Zelda CD-I games, I might as well point out Hotel Mario here. And never speak about them, ever again...

I still don't see any logic behind criticising exclusivity anyway, and I don't understand how said notion doesn't apply to Microsoft and Sony too, but whatever...



I thought you were done "trying" with this thread? It seems you can't resist to drop the argument.



@seiya19; Those Hudson Soft games are also on the Super Mario Wiki (thanks, didn't know about those):

Punch Ball Mario Bros.
Mario Bros. Special
Super Mario Bros. Special

Also, I agree with your post.



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S.Peelman said:
^^ Those Hudson Soft games are also on the Super Mario Wiki (thanks, didn't know about those)

Oh, I didn't know about that wiki... Anyway, glad to be of service ^_^ . And thanks for posting the links.



seiya19 said:

For what it's worth, Hudson Soft developed 3 Mario games on several Japanese home computers, between 1984 and 1986 (Famicom was released in 1983 in Japan, NES in 1985 in NA, and a year later in EU). The games were Punch Ball Mario Bros, Mario Bros Special, and Super Mario Bros Special. I was going to post a link to an article about them, but there's a link to the roms in there, so I don't think I can...

And since someone already pointed out the Zelda CD-I games, I might as well point out Hotel Mario here. And never speak about them, ever again...

I still don't see any logic behind criticising exclusivity anyway, and I don't understand how said notion doesn't apply to Microsoft and Sony too, but whatever...

Sure it is relevant. Finally I have examples that I can at least half-count. Although they are not made by Nintendo, they are not just educational software but true videogames. Thanks for your input.

Given the release dates, we can perceive it was in times when Nintendo was about to start the console business. Any games from the 90s onwards produced by Nintendo and launched on the PC or other consoles? If so, then the OP is wrong and I must correct it. If not, then the OP is just fine since it doesn't say that Nintendo has never launched games on other systems, just that they have engaged into such a strategy (at some point).

 

The logic about criticising Nintendo's exclusivity is not simple but it is explained in the OP. Exclusivity alone would not be that much of a problem but it is part of something bigger. Nintendo has created an integrated and long-term strategy based on exclusivity and elitism to inflate the perceived value of their games:

"As mentioned earlier, Nintendo has always tried to keep the perceived value of their products as high as possible. That could only have been done with a solid and long-term strategy based on exclusivity and elitism. Not letting any of their games to be launched out of their consoles (not even on PC) was a way to tell the consumer that, no matter what, Nintendo games will ever only be played on Nintendo consoles. Not dropping their price (even when pure supply/demand logic would demand it) was a way to tell that a Mario game is worth 50€, today and tomorrow.

This strategy could make them lose some potential sales in the short-term but it was a clever long-term arm-wrestling against gamers. It’s not easy to blackmail the market without a monopoly but Nintendo has always tried really hard to do so. And the most scary thing was that the more control they had over the market, the more control they tried to further get.

When NES had around 90% of market share, Nintendo implemented what they called “inventory management”, which consisted of limiting the amount of software units available at sale in order to keep high demand for games and thus put customers on a short leash. Gamers would buy what Nintendo wanted and at the price they wanted, once customers were concerned about which games were available rather than how much they would have to spend. Being able to buy a Nintendo game was a gift by itself. By design, Nintendo would not fill all of the retailers' orders and kept half or more of its library of games inactive and unavailable. In 1988, for instance, 33 million NES cartridges were sold, but market surveys indicated that upwards of 45 million could have been sold. This was a great attempt to get ultimate control over supply and demand."

 

This doesn't apply to Microsoft or Sony because they haven't followed this strategy at all. It's pointless to talk about Microsoft on this subject since they also have Windows on PC, but Sony has been releasing many titles outside of the PlayStation ecosystem. Also, they drop the price of their games and have never created such policies as the Nintendo's "inventory management". Sony has been very far from this inflation strategy and PlayStation Now is another proof of that.



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M

MDMAlliance said:

Except for the fact that the context of what you said doesn't change the fact that you're wrong about that statement.  And the argument of "environment of exclusivity" is also wrong given that Nintendo's recent meeting pretty much outright told us they were considering using non-Nintendo hardware for games.  Maybe not fully, but you seriously cannot expect that from any of the big 3.  

Also, saying nothing is 100% accurate is just a scapegoat for you.  "100% accuracy" here refers to things regarded as truths in history, and since there's little to no other interpretation of these historical facts that counter your absolute statements, I can pretty much say with "100% accuracy" that you're wrong.

You're saying I'm being picky but I'm actually not at all.  I pointed out MANY things in your OP that were wrong.  I actually could have picked out a LOT more if I were trying to be picky.  In reality, you're just deluded, not us.

You are again circling around the issue instead of going right to the point. You are yet to prove that this part of the OP is a lie:

"Not letting any of their games to be launched out of their consoles (not even on PC) was a way to tell the consumer that, no matter what, Nintendo games will ever only be played on Nintendo consoles."

The argument continues to be valid even with the examples of seiya19 and S.Peelman, which haven't "saved" you at all.



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M

Anfebious said:

Because there is no proving you wrong, I saw that in the Unity thread and it all continues in this thread. I saw plenty of arguments against your OP but you dissmiss everything, as I said it's like talking to a wall and I told you that in the Unity thread once. You just keep replying, there is no "argument" against you because you aren't willing to reconsider parts of your OP, specially since a lot of what you say is personal opinion and there is no changing that. There are parts of your OP that are legit though, mainly the parts that can be taken as facts as the Nintendo mistreament of third parties in the 3rd gen. But there are parts like the first paragraphs that are your own opinion, or twisted logic.

Well it certainly feels like you want us to swallow it. As I said if there is no proving you wrong so then what other option do we have but to agree with you in the end? Otherwise we could make this thread as long as the Unity one.

Sometimes I feel it's not worth replying, you will keep on replying until I shut up. But this time I'll follow you, I'll reply for as long as you want.

Your attempts to marginalize me show your deep anger. I don't want to debate with someone on that mood. You're not seeking reason, I will get nothing from you.



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M

Zod95 said:
MDMAlliance said:

Except for the fact that the context of what you said doesn't change the fact that you're wrong about that statement.  And the argument of "environment of exclusivity" is also wrong given that Nintendo's recent meeting pretty much outright told us they were considering using non-Nintendo hardware for games.  Maybe not fully, but you seriously cannot expect that from any of the big 3.  

Also, saying nothing is 100% accurate is just a scapegoat for you.  "100% accuracy" here refers to things regarded as truths in history, and since there's little to no other interpretation of these historical facts that counter your absolute statements, I can pretty much say with "100% accuracy" that you're wrong.

You're saying I'm being picky but I'm actually not at all.  I pointed out MANY things in your OP that were wrong.  I actually could have picked out a LOT more if I were trying to be picky.  In reality, you're just deluded, not us.

You are again circling around the issue instead of going right to the point. You are yet to prove that this part of the OP is a lie:

"Not letting any of their games to be launched out of their consoles (not even on PC) was a way to tell the consumer that, no matter what, Nintendo games will ever only be played on Nintendo consoles."

The argument continues to be valid even with the examples of seiya19 and S.Peelman, which haven't "saved" you at all.


You say I am circling the issue rather than going right to the point.  However, we have already showed the evidence that Nintendo has let two of their franchises release on PC (a separate system) and they have even said in their recent meeting that they were open to using their IP's on smart phones, even maybe for games.  http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130/03.html Here is a place to go as proof.