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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Debunking the Myth that Next Gen Consoles are too weak

walsufnir said:
freedquaker said:
walsufnir said:
I don't know what to say and where to start...
At first it's consoles against PC, in the end PS4 against Xbone...

Nothing really new is heard and the mistakes are too much to mention here.


Do mention it please!

 

First to start, octa-core is nice but the cores *are* low-performance. There are 2-core CPUs which have more performance, you cannot add all cores together, especially if they share ressources by a large amount.

Second, consoles have currently ~5GB of RAM available and gamer PCs easily have more and more free.

 

I agree it's a good jump to last-gen but don't go to the land of PC comparison, especially if details are not thoroughly understood.

But who cares for PC gaming, anyway?

 

You only see what you wanna see, right? You sound like a real PC-elitist, with little touch to reality. Now please read what I did write...

"It's true that those cores have relatively poor single threaded performance but with the sufficient level of parallelism and low level calls, CPUs had never been this fast in relative terms (compared to PCs). So the CPU performance will never be an issue. Also keep in mind that the CPU performance improvements have slowed tremendously at the last decade."

Those quotes DO NOT CLAIM that consoles have faster CPUs; no they don't! But they also DON'T NEED. The CPU performance has never been the bottleneck on the consoles! So having a much faster CPU is mostly useless on a console.

You say, Consoles have 5 GB RAM available, and do you think PCs can allocate all of their RAM to the games? The mainstream PC, for which most games are designed today, have 4-6 GB RAM, and NOT ONE SINGLE GAME uses more than 3 GB of it. Windows alone reserves 1-2 GB for itself. So having a 16 GB PC means nothing for a game today. Also It would still be USELESS FOR A 1080P game.



Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

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Stats don't matter, show me the results. You can almost see a larger jump from early last gen to late last gen due to a move to deferred rendering/lighting which greatly increased the realism in the lighting of scenes. I have seen nothing from any of the three consoles graphics wise that comes close to ANY other generation leap.

The graphical improvements are marginal at this point.



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freedquaker said:

a) Those Consoles come with octo-core processors, which is well beyond the main stream pc with dual core. It's true that those cores have relatively poor single threaded performance but with the sufficient level of parallelism and low level calls, CPUs had never been this fast in relative terms (compared to PCs). So the CPU performance will never be an issue. Also keep in mind that the CPU performance improvements have slowed tremendously at the last decade.

Average gamer these days has a quad core or higher, and many have hyperthreading thus creating twice as many logical processors, take for example my 6 core cpu, it has 12 logical processors, the average PC cpu also has more L1 and L2 cache.

b) The amount of RAM (8 GB) is well beyond the main stream PC (4-6 GB) today, which had never happened. Most games are not even programmed to run on more than 3 GB, and this is the first time in history, where the console ports don't have to be downsized at all. In comparison, 1 GB was the mainstream RAM when the 7th Gen consoles arrived with only 1/2 RAM including the graphics, and 128 MB was the mainstream when PS2 arrived with 32 MB! Also today we have so much RAM on our PCs that the capacity increases came to a crawl.

Mainstream Pcs generally have 8GB of ram and at least 1GB ram for GPU, totalling 9GB of usable ram for the average PC, enthusiast pcs have much higher, mine for example has 64gb system ram and 6gb vram, PS4 has to share its ram between gpu, cpu and OS, with around 2-3gb reserved for the OS, developers generally get only about 5 to 5.5gb to use on actual games.

c) 500 GB, although still may be not much for today's games, is relatively abundant compared to the debut with the 7th Gen. consoles.

And relatively small to all but pre-2010 laptops.

d) The GPU seems to be archiles heel, at least with the XB1. However, it's unfair to the PS4 as it seems to be just fine with 1080p and up to 60 fps. We know that the graphics will improve over time, squeezing either better graphics or more stable performance. Given that most TVs today are not capable of producing resolutions greater than 1080p, there really is no point in putting a higher GPU than what PS4 has over the long run.

You went from trying to prove consoles arent weak to bashing the xbox one in the not-so-subtle way, good job.

e) PS4 employs a super fast GDDR5, equivalent to the PC tech, but just much more of it. Games, which are not designed with this in mind will not magically look better, but they will come in time. Couple this with many exciting technologies, none of which has been implemented yet, which are more likely to see on consoles than on the PC.

Most modern PC gpus are PCIE, and can handle way higher, had the Xbox One used 128mb esram  we wouldnt be having this discussion.

In short, PS4 is the most balanced machine out there for the long term, and is more than capable to serve as long as PS3 did. XB1, on the other hand, although similar, is crippled by its inefficient design, with respect to the RAM Bandwidth. If only XB1 had incorporated GDDR5 instead of DDR3 + ESRAM (or at least a DDR3+GDDR5 solution similar to PS3), ditching the Kinect, things would be much rosier for it now.

Steamboxes say hi, and all the Xbox one needed was 64mb, ot 128mb of esram and it would have been fine.

How you swang from defending "consoles" against being weak to defending the ps4 and pushing aside the Xbox One suggests to me that you werent really interested in debunking any myths but rather just wanted to talk about how the ps4 is better.



I agree. The PS4 is a very capable machine. It'll serve its purpose well at 1080p/900p



I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine

freedquaker said:
walsufnir said:
freedquaker said:
walsufnir said:
I don't know what to say and where to start...
At first it's consoles against PC, in the end PS4 against Xbone...

Nothing really new is heard and the mistakes are too much to mention here.


Do mention it please!

 

First to start, octa-core is nice but the cores *are* low-performance. There are 2-core CPUs which have more performance, you cannot add all cores together, especially if they share ressources by a large amount.

Second, consoles have currently ~5GB of RAM available and gamer PCs easily have more and more free.

 

I agree it's a good jump to last-gen but don't go to the land of PC comparison, especially if details are not thoroughly understood.

But who cares for PC gaming, anyway?

 

You only see what you wanna see, right? You sound like a real PC-elitist, with little touch to reality. Now please read what I did write...

Are you serious ? I could have sworn that walsufnir was a console gamer ... Oh well what do I know.



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The consoles are fine. If you have a gaming PC you might not want one or feel that it's a step back but most people do not own a gaming PC--even most of the people who play games on a PC have something weaker than a PS4.

Will the PS4 and Xbox One hold game development back eventually? Probably, but not yet and probably not for quite awhile. It's just opening up again after the 360/PS3 bottleneck.

Most game developers do not make their games for ultra-high level PCs only. It would be foolish, as not many people have those, relatively speaking. Consoles only become a real problem when they fall behind the average PC configuration.



I think the PS4 and Xbox One are exactly where they need to be. I know some PC enthusiast will say they will drag gaming down to their power and hobble PCs for the next five or eight years. Fact is, that making games is already too expensive because of this obsession with graphics. The PS4 and Xbox One keep things reasonable.



kanageddaamen said:
Stats don't matter, show me the results. You can almost see a larger jump from early last gen to late last gen due to a move to deferred rendering/lighting which greatly increased the realism in the lighting of scenes. I have seen nothing from any of the three consoles graphics wise that comes close to ANY other generation leap.

The graphical improvements are marginal at this point.


This is more about the comparison of consoles with the PC. People really have a very short term memory. When you look at the first generation ports from PC to the consoles, you'll see significantly worse results on the console. Today, they are almost identical.

I remember the ports from PC to PS2, most of which were very subpar. Even the Xbox versions were significantly below the PC versions. The disparity today is almost non-existent.

Compare the first generation PS1, PS2, PS3 ports from PC with the PS4 ports. All PC ports before had to be downsized, and scaled back, whereas PS4 looks on par pretty much always.



Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

so we can get to a consensus here, ps4 and xboxone are weak machines but they serve good to their pourpose. /thread.



34 years playing games.

 

freedquaker said:

Let's remember that compared to the 7th Generation console designs, the vast majority of developers are relatively much happier this time around

If I were a developer, I would be happier too. I like the way the 8th gen consoles have evolved from their predecessors. Games will be easier to make and cutting-edge ambitions will be easier to implement. Excitement among developers means happiness among gamers.



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M