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Forums - Politics Discussion - 19F – The Night Venezuela Finally Imploded

Slarvax on 20 February 2014
osed125 said:
Mr Khan said:

This is the big problem with politicizing the military. What Venezuela and much of the rest of South America struggled with is that for the longest time, the military was there to protect the rich and oppress the poor. Empowering the military to support the working man by using them as thugs to shake down the upper classes and upper-class aligned political elements merely creates the opposite problem, and then the virtues of the Chavista revolution (and yes, there are some good ideas in there) are lost due to all the bad junk he put in alongside, and the progress of class relations is set back in Venezuela as the pendulum swings the other way.

Though this Capriles guy doesn't seem all bad.

Chavez was a soldier, he always had the mentality of a corrupt military man. And Maduro...well he is a bus driver who was "educated" in Cuba about the communist ideologies.

Capriles used to be a big leader...but after the last elections he lost his charm or "power" I guess you could say. Millions of people still follow him, but millions of other lost faith in him.

He still is, but, as you said, he wants peace. On the other hand, Leopoldo Lopez wants this to end! 



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Mummelmann on 20 February 2014
Mr Khan said:
maximus22 said:
This is absolutely horrifying and heart breaking. Yet another reason why I for one will never let my government disarm me.

Yes, because being able to shoot back stops them from wanting to shoot you. Instead of Egypt you get South Sudan. Good idea.


Whoa! You're saying that it's not a good idea for a nation for all citizens to be armed? What a refreshing point of view, 85% of my friends from the US are dead set (possilby literally) on the right to bear arms. If someone tries to tell them that arming an entire country might not be a terrific idea, especially in a country with rather vast social differences and problems and no small amount of cultural opposition, the only response one gets is; "But it is my constitutional right etc etc etc."

Just because something is allowed doesn't mean it's a great idea.



osed125 on 20 February 2014
Slarvax said:
osed125 said:
Mr Khan said:

This is the big problem with politicizing the military. What Venezuela and much of the rest of South America struggled with is that for the longest time, the military was there to protect the rich and oppress the poor. Empowering the military to support the working man by using them as thugs to shake down the upper classes and upper-class aligned political elements merely creates the opposite problem, and then the virtues of the Chavista revolution (and yes, there are some good ideas in there) are lost due to all the bad junk he put in alongside, and the progress of class relations is set back in Venezuela as the pendulum swings the other way.

Though this Capriles guy doesn't seem all bad.

Chavez was a soldier, he always had the mentality of a corrupt military man. And Maduro...well he is a bus driver who was "educated" in Cuba about the communist ideologies.

Capriles used to be a big leader...but after the last elections he lost his charm or "power" I guess you could say. Millions of people still follow him, but millions of other lost faith in him.

He still is, but, as you said, he wants peace. On the other hand, Leopoldo Lopez wants this to end! 

While I think Leopoldo's choice will be in vain, he has 1000x more balls than Capriles. I think Capriles "obsession" with finding a peaceful way to end Venezuela's problems is going too far. 

In his speech today, he questioned Maduro about all the people that were killed or injured because of his commands, and Maduro was probably laughing while hearing him. Capriles needs to understand that Maduro isn't afraid of killing thousands of people if necessary, that's how communist governments are, and Maduro also doesn't care what other countries think of him.



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green_sky on 20 February 2014

This is really disheartening. Ukraine is a clusterfuck right now too.



Slarvax on 20 February 2014
osed125 said:

While I think Leopoldo's choice will be in vain, he has 1000x more balls than Capriles. I think Capriles "obsession" with finding a peaceful way to end Venezuela's problems is going too far. 

In his speech today, he questioned Maduro about all the people that were killed or injured because of his commands, and Maduro was probably laughing while hearing him. Capriles needs to understand that Maduro isn't afraid of killing thousands of people if necessary, that's how communist governments are, and Maduro also doesn't care what other countries think of him.

I don't know much on government systems, so I don't really understand that much about communism.

But, also, the next biggest problem is that Maduro doesn't give a fuck about anybody. He's not venezuelan, he doesn't care if all of this people die.



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osed125 on 20 February 2014
Slarvax said:
osed125 said:

While I think Leopoldo's choice will be in vain, he has 1000x more balls than Capriles. I think Capriles "obsession" with finding a peaceful way to end Venezuela's problems is going too far. 

In his speech today, he questioned Maduro about all the people that were killed or injured because of his commands, and Maduro was probably laughing while hearing him. Capriles needs to understand that Maduro isn't afraid of killing thousands of people if necessary, that's how communist governments are, and Maduro also doesn't care what other countries think of him.

I don't know much on government systems, so I don't really understand that much about communism.

But, also, the next biggest problem is that Maduro doesn't give a fuck about anybody. He's not venezuelan, he doesn't care if all of this people die.

Was it finally confirmed that he is Colombian? I mean it was obvious from the beginning but I don't remember anyone finding any "real" conclusive evidence yet.



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Slarvax on 20 February 2014
osed125 said:
Slarvax said:
osed125 said:

While I think Leopoldo's choice will be in vain, he has 1000x more balls than Capriles. I think Capriles "obsession" with finding a peaceful way to end Venezuela's problems is going too far. 

In his speech today, he questioned Maduro about all the people that were killed or injured because of his commands, and Maduro was probably laughing while hearing him. Capriles needs to understand that Maduro isn't afraid of killing thousands of people if necessary, that's how communist governments are, and Maduro also doesn't care what other countries think of him.

I don't know much on government systems, so I don't really understand that much about communism.

But, also, the next biggest problem is that Maduro doesn't give a fuck about anybody. He's not venezuelan, he doesn't care if all of this people die.

Was it finally confirmed that he is Colombian? I mean it was obvious from the beginning but I don't remember anyone finding any "real" conclusive evidence yet.

There were some papers... But this proves me, a guy that could care less about politics, that he is not.



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Mr Khan on 20 February 2014
Mummelmann said:
Mr Khan said:
maximus22 said:
This is absolutely horrifying and heart breaking. Yet another reason why I for one will never let my government disarm me.

Yes, because being able to shoot back stops them from wanting to shoot you. Instead of Egypt you get South Sudan. Good idea.


Whoa! You're saying that it's not a good idea for a nation for all citizens to be armed? What a refreshing point of view, 85% of my friends from the US are dead set (possilby literally) on the right to bear arms. If someone tries to tell them that arming an entire country might not be a terrific idea, especially in a country with rather vast social differences and problems and no small amount of cultural opposition, the only response one gets is; "But it is my constitutional right etc etc etc."

Just because something is allowed doesn't mean it's a great idea.

Studies show that as far as crime goes, it either doesn't make a difference or helps in a small way (that is, more gun availability), but for use in political situations, arming the opposition absolutely, positively makes things far worse than they were, because it gives the oppressors an excuse to gun them down. If the protestors were shooting back, it'd be civil war already, whereas a peaceful solution is still perfectly possible (Ukraine just declared a "truce" in their present unrest, for instance).



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fighter on 20 February 2014

it's so funny how desperately the opposition is trying to make Maduro seem anti-democratic


Even if new elections are held he or his socialist party will win again, it's a very basic fact that Venezuela will never go back to become US's backyard.


Deal with it.



osed125 on 20 February 2014
fighter said:
it's so funny how desperately the opposition is trying to make Maduro seem anti-democratic


Even if new elections are held he or his socialist party will win again, it's a very basic fact that Venezuela will never go back to become US's backyard.


Deal with it.

So the government killing civilians is democratic?



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