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Forums - Gaming - Nintendo Made The Biggest Leap of The Big Three With Wii U

bonzobanana said:
curl-6 said:
 

Wii U's GPU is not well documented; it has no been identified as any single pre-existing GPU.

There hasn't been improvement in third party efforts because less and less resources and effort are being invested in them due to low sales, which were partly caused by the shittiness of early ports. Besides a few like Frozenbyte and Criterion, nobody has really even tried to push the system. They just haven't bothered. You can't forcefeed a system code written for different architecture and expect it to perform well.

As for Wii/Xbox, RAM speed was also against the Xbox; CPU cycles would be lost waiting for its slower RAM to respond, and when a mistake was made, its longer pipeline meant more processing time was wasted. Xbox may look beefier on paper, but in practice it lost out due to inefficiency compared to the Wii.

It won't be identified as any pre-existing gpu exactly either as it integrates a wii gpu within it. It is likely A Radeon HD 6400 mobility gpu or similar. The point is its a Radeon architecture gpu of humble origins which Nintendo won't release details of but developers will have the documentation on.  Also adds a high speed mpeg compression engine.

The second paragraph is your belief that the wii u is getting lazy ports. This was the same excuse given to wii games. It is the standard Nintendo fanboy defence but its much more likely based on overwhelming evidence that the wii u is performing as expected based on its hardware design which has many huge weaknesses.

Again you have made a defence of the wii cpu based on your belief that somehow the xbox is inefficient. The xbox has cache memory all over the place including the cpu and gpu, it has a high 6.4GB/s memory bandwidth continous 64MB of memory, a full sound processor again with its own cache.  The wii has a 2MB frame buffer, 1MB texture cache, 24MB main memory and 64MB DDR buffer area but no hard drive. 

You really just need to look at the maximum performance level of both consoles.

Just look at Conker on original xbox. Not the artistic style but the rich textures, lighting effects, graphic effects, animation etc. Mario Galaxy while attractive has very similar textures, little depth effect. It sort of resembles a high res Mario 64 in look but Conker has some enhanced effects well beyond wii including defocusing and other stuff. Not only does Conker have more impressive graphics but you get full 5.1 sound.

http://www.youtubedoubler.com/?video1=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DMov1AlNKCWk&start1=1580&video2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DYat9LvFtixsv%3DK05xxeCdhSo&start2=160&authorName=

"Likely" you say. Can you prove it's an off the shelf, well documented part?

And Wii U is getting lazy ports; the proof is clear, that while having twice as much RAM they haven't bothered to use better textures or anything, just copy/pasted over the 360/PS3 assets with minimal effort. (Even though quality ports like Need for Speed and Trine 2 show that its possible, with Criterion saying it was easy for them to use PC-quality textures on Wii U)

Wii's CPU has 256kb of L2 cache. Xbox's has half that at 128kb. Main RAM is faster on Wii as well. Add in a shorter pipeline, and you get less CPU cycles going to waste on the Wii.

Conker is indeed very impressive, but Mario Galaxy uses a wider range of effects at once, (rim lighting and multitexturing all over the place, tons of particles from the star bits/Mario spinning/collecting coins/etc, heat distortion, fur shading, bloom lighting, reflection, refraction...) while running at 60fps compared to Conker's 30fps. And while Conker is the technical pinnacle of the Xbox, Galaxy is not Wii's.



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curl-6 said:
NeoRatt said:
 Hence, the fact that Wii sold really good at the start of the last generation, but has since faded, and over the long run may actually finish third in the 7th generation.

The 7th gen is over. It's the 8th gen now.

Like I said, the Wii (NOT THE WII U) may finish 3rd in the 7th gen.  Between X360 and PS3 they may still pass the Wii before their life cycles are over.



NeoRatt said:
curl-6 said:
NeoRatt said:
 Hence, the fact that Wii sold really good at the start of the last generation, but has since faded, and over the long run may actually finish third in the 7th generation.

The 7th gen is over. It's the 8th gen now.

Like I said, the Wii (NOT THE WII U) may finish 3rd in the 7th gen.  Between X360 and PS3 they may still pass the Wii before their life cycles are over.

Passing the winner after the finish line isn't winning.



Taking the biggest leap => overshooting the rock and falling off the cliff.....



curl-6 said:
NeoRatt said:
curl-6 said:
NeoRatt said:
 Hence, the fact that Wii sold really good at the start of the last generation, but has since faded, and over the long run may actually finish third in the 7th generation.

The 7th gen is over. It's the 8th gen now.

Like I said, the Wii (NOT THE WII U) may finish 3rd in the 7th gen.  Between X360 and PS3 they may still pass the Wii before their life cycles are over.

Passing the winner after the finish line isn't winning.

The finish line is when all three manufacturers quit selling that generation of consoles.  Just because another gen started, it doesn't mean the last gen is over.

Multiple generations exist and overlap.  Someone forgot to send you the memo. Sorry.



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NeoRatt said:

The finish line is when all three manufacturers quit selling that generation of consoles.  Just because another gen started, it doesn't mean the last gen is over.

Multiple generations exist and overlap.  Someone forgot to send you the memo. Sorry.

No. It's the 8th gen now. The 7th is over.



NeoRatt said:
curl-6 said:

Passing the winner after the finish line isn't winning.

The finish line is when all three manufacturers quit selling that generation of consoles.  Just because another gen started, it doesn't mean the last gen is over.

Multiple generations exist and overlap.  Someone forgot to send you the memo. Sorry.


I would say that depends on how you want to define "generation."  One way to look at it, the generation is over once all three of the next generation systems are out.  Another one is when the last console of that generation is manufactured.  Either way, the main reason Wii would get outsold is because of Nintendo's abrupt discontinuation of support.



curl-6 said:

NeoRatt said:

The finish line is when all three manufacturers quit selling that generation of consoles.  Just because another gen started, it doesn't mean the last gen is over.

Multiple generations exist and overlap.  Someone forgot to send you the memo. Sorry.

No. It's the 8th gen now. The 7th is over.


This is a pointless semantic argument. Nintendo fans would love to sweep that gen under the rug in case of 360/PS3 sales surpassing Wii's, though. That's all I take away from this conversation continuing. If PS3 or 360 overtake Wii sales, what it does prove is that those consoles are ultimately a better value as they are getting continued software support. That's just my opinion, but continuing this conversation is pointless as you can't really define when a generation is over. Question is: If PS3 sales pass the Wii's are Nintendo fans just going to discredit it because the "7th gen was over"? I know the answer to that, but god is that a silly, fanboyish way of looking at things.



Probably because of diminishing returns. PS4/X1 software doesn't look near as much better to PS360 as PS360 software did to PS2/Xbox.

PS4/X1 software looks "really nice", but the leap is not as big, at least so far.

Thus Wii U making the last gen jump gains more.


That said, I remember a few games that due to artstyle were said to look good each gen. Example, Mario Galaxy on Wii, did not look bad even compared to PS3/360 games. Similarly, Mario 3D world or whatever it's called will look fine next to PS4 games.

Lack of power shows up more in certain demanding genres and certain artstyles. Mario Galaxy on Wii looked nice last gen, but the Conduit (FPS) looked terrible. Similarly, Mario 3D world may look fine on Wii U, but a BF4 port would look horrible.



DBZfan2027 said:
curl-6 said:

NeoRatt said:

The finish line is when all three manufacturers quit selling that generation of consoles.  Just because another gen started, it doesn't mean the last gen is over.

Multiple generations exist and overlap.  Someone forgot to send you the memo. Sorry.

No. It's the 8th gen now. The 7th is over.


This is a pointless semantic argument. Nintendo fans would love to sweep that gen under the rug in case of 360/PS3 sales surpassing Wii's, though. That's all I take away from this conversation continuing. If PS3 or 360 overtake Wii sales, what it does prove is that those consoles are ultimately a better value as they are getting continued software support. That's just my opinion, but continuing this conversation is pointless as you can't really define when a generation is over. Question is: If PS3 sales pass the Wii's are Nintendo fans just going to discredit it because the "7th gen was over"? I know the answer to that, but god is that a silly, fanboyish way of looking at things.

And Sony fans would love to extend the 7th gen into the 8th to try to paint the PS3 as the winner it wasn't.