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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Gen 9: Nintendo Light/ Nintendo Dark branding

 

This strategy works

Yes 27 45.76%
 
Red Ocean is risky for now 12 20.34%
 
No 19 32.20%
 
Total:58
zorg1000 on 02 February 2014
Shadow1980 said:
padib said:

Good post. There are a million reasons why going with the competitive attitude is detrimental to Nintendo at the moment. It took me years to come to grips with this, since I was always of your point of view, but after mulling it over and wrestling with Rol and a few other users, I finally got it.

The problem is that Nintendo really is not able to play Sony and MS at their game right now, and competing would be much too costly for them. If you want I can explain further why. For now, take a look at the gamecube. If you dig down beyond all kinds of reasons people will give for its failure, at the core ultimately you'll find that Nintendo did everything to compete with Sony and MS, but to no avail.

It's my strong belief that until they are ready to get their hands bloody (excuse the pun), they really should secure their current target audience (family-friendly). The unified approach is the winning solution for accomplishing that mission at the moment, it doubles their apparent throughput instantly.

I disagree. I don't think they did what was needed with the GC, or the N64 for that matter. As I've said repeatedly these past couple of weeks, the only reason the N64 and GC got crushed by Sony was bad hardware decisions from Nintendo. Sure, the N64 and GC both had better specs than the PS1 and PS2 respectively, but that didn't mean much because of the format. Third party support for Nintendo was severely reduced starting in the fifth generation because third parties wanted CDs because of the greater storage capacity and lower costs, but Nintendo gave them a cartridge-based system. So, the devs packed up and left for Sony's new CD-based system. The fact that Nintendo went with a proprietary miniDVD-based format with the GC didn't exactly improve the situation, what with the format having only a third the capacity of a single-layer DVD. If Nintendo had just gone with CDs with the N64 and regular DVDs with the GC, Nintendo probably would have won those generations as all the third parties wouldn't have left them for Sony.

Nintendo's problems derive from hardware design decisions that, while they may fit Nintendo's needs, do not fit the needs of third parties. Trying to once again come up with something radically different from the competition — and that something is unlikely to attract third parties — and hope it becomes the next Wii is just too damn risky. If their next system fails, then what? Wait unti 2023 and hope they still have the cash to make a "true" tenth-gen system? I believe now is the time for a modern-day resurrection of the NES model, the same model that made them household names in the first place. They need to do it while they still can. While they may not dominate, they could at least have something that's guaranteed to sell. They have several years to prepare for this, as the ninth generation likely won't start on Sony and MS's end until 2018. If you believe the opposite and that Nintendo can't compete directly with MS and Sony and should yet again try an unconventional system, I'd like to hear why.

The thing about Gamecube tho is that it did have really good 3rd party support.

Splinter Cell, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon, Prince of Persia, Need for Speed, Madden, FIFA, NBA Street, NFL Street, Burnout, Medal of Honor, Call of Duty, Spider-Man, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, Spyro the Dragon, Crash Bandicoot, Sonic Heroes, Soul Calibur II, James Bond 007, Lego Star Wars, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Dragon Ball Z: Budokai, The Sims, True Crime, SSX, X-Men Legends, WWE Wrestlemania, Crazy Taxi, Enter the Matrix, Dance Dance Revolution, Timesplitters 2, Mortal Kombat, Naruto, Turok, King Kong and many others.

Also it got great 3rd party exclusives/timed exclusives

Viewtiful Joe, Resident Evil Zero, Resident Evil Remake, Resident Evil 4, Billy Hatcher, Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, Tales of Symphonia, Final Fantasy Chrystal Chronicles, Super Monkey Ball, Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes

Also a few collaborations like F-Zero GX (Sega) and Star Fox Assault (Namco)

Gamecube had great third party support but most games still sold like shit.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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DélioPT on 02 February 2014
padib said:
DélioPT said:
I don`t think that`s Nintendo`s plan.
They do intend to have a streamline production of SW and i think they will, while having a portable device and a home console (they confirmed that both are being "made" already), Nintendo will make them work together.
My guess is that by sharing the same architecture (which might save them money on R&D and actual product manufacturing) and not a massive difference in power, they can easily make one game that works on both HWs.

The recent confirmation of an account system would allow this.

Not only would this allow them to save money and keep prices cheap (assuming that sharing the same architecture would allow that, of course), it would give them enough room to not overexpose their franchises (instead of 2 marios for handhelds and 2 for home consoles, one at launch and another 2 years later, for example), it would allow for creating/reviving franchises and be more creative.

Honestly, to me that`s what Nintendo is planning.
Because, just sharing the same game between platforms would mean that those who buy 2 Nintendo platforms to get different Marios, Zeldas, etc., would only buy one, thus, losing money.
having them work alone and as one is the incentive that people need to buy both consoles.

Imagine a SKU for 400$ where you get a handheld and a Home Console.

Okay, with that in mind what do you think about the Light/Dark branding idea? That's what this thread is mostly about. I'm interested in what you think.

Shadow, I will answer you soon.

I don`t think Nintendo fans would appreciate being offered two consoles to get the majority - if not all - Nintendo franchises.
Even if that happened it would mean that the Nintendo fanbase would be split in numbers. That would be a bad motivator not only to third parties, who would see less of a userbase per platform, thus less profits per title, as Nintendo itself would get less profits per title as the userbase would be divided.

That`s why having two consoles work as one and being able to share the same games, would be the best motivator for 3rd parties.
As of now both Nintendo consoles have their userbase split. If that "fusion" happens, there`s a high chance that same gap will decrease (specially at low HW prices).
That being, every developer has a bigger potential userbase because since they make one game that can work in 2 platforms. Also it manages to decrease risks and increase potential profit margin per title. Same goes for Nintendo, of course.



DélioPT on 02 February 2014
padib said:
DélioPT said:

I don`t think Nintendo fans would appreciate being offered two consoles to get the majority - if not all - Nintendo franchises.
Even if that happened it would mean that the Nintendo fanbase would be split in numbers. That would be a bad motivator not only to third parties, who would see less of a userbase per platform, thus less profits per title, as Nintendo itself would get less profits per title as the userbase would be divided.

That`s why having two consoles work as one and being able to share the same games, would be the best motivator for 3rd parties.
As of now both Nintendo consoles have their userbase split. If that "fusion" happens, there`s a high chance that same gap will decrease (specially at low HW prices).
That being, every developer has a bigger potential userbase because since they make one game that can work in 2 platforms. Also it manages to decrease risks and increase potential profit margin per title. Same goes for Nintendo, of course.

The two types would be playable on the same console, it's just a branding idea, it doesn't affect compatibility.

All games would be available on both systems? Wouldn`t that confuse people?

I thought the goal was to divide brands.



DélioPT on 02 February 2014
padib said:
DélioPT said:
padib said:
DélioPT said:

I don`t think Nintendo fans would appreciate being offered two consoles to get the majority - if not all - Nintendo franchises.
Even if that happened it would mean that the Nintendo fanbase would be split in numbers. That would be a bad motivator not only to third parties, who would see less of a userbase per platform, thus less profits per title, as Nintendo itself would get less profits per title as the userbase would be divided.

That`s why having two consoles work as one and being able to share the same games, would be the best motivator for 3rd parties.
As of now both Nintendo consoles have their userbase split. If that "fusion" happens, there`s a high chance that same gap will decrease (specially at low HW prices).
That being, every developer has a bigger potential userbase because since they make one game that can work in 2 platforms. Also it manages to decrease risks and increase potential profit margin per title. Same goes for Nintendo, of course.

The two types would be playable on the same console, it's just a branding idea, it doesn't affect compatibility.

All games would be available on both systems? Wouldn`t that confuse people?

I thought the goal was to divide brands.

The games would be packaged under each respective brand much like this (see the touch generations label?):

 

 

and this (see the black box style?):

This kind of mechanism does not confuse people, but instead informs them of their purchases (that they are within a given category).

The idea in OP would be to make this light/dark label apply to all games. All games would fit in one of the two, allowing players to be more informed about what kind of game they are getting, and especially allowing Nintendo not to confuse their family-friendly image.



Oh, ok.I get what you mean.
Nintendo kinda did that with the DS Mario games having a red casing. Pandora`s tower also has a different casing (black).

In that case it`s something that Nintendo should try to make some games more enticing. In a shelf, those would stand out, for sure.
Question is: should Nintendo "split" brands or could they use these casings on specific games? For example, it could fit on Twilight Princess but not on Wind Waker which has a more kid friendly appearance.



DélioPT on 02 February 2014
padib said:
DélioPT said:

Oh, ok.I get what you mean.
Nintendo kinda did that with the DS Mario games having a red casing. Pandora`s tower also has a different casing (black).

In that case it`s something that Nintendo should try to make some games more enticing. In a shelf, those would stand out, for sure.
Question is: should Nintendo "split" brands or could they use these casings on specific games? For example, it could fit on Twilight Princess but not on Wind Waker which has a more kid friendly appearance.

Exactly. So, this branding idea is mostly suggested to ensure Nintendo can push a little harder in the non-family type of game, all the while protecting its investment in the family-oriented content. It would be much more aggressively implemented than the branding that exists now (which is good), and could be used at the level of bundling (as mentioned in OP).

For example, the console would actually be labelled white or dark, though it's the same console, but with a different color, and would be bundled or suggested with games labelled dark. It would be a much more ingraned branding than the bit of branding we have now (touch gen, black cover for certain 3ds games).


I wouldn`t call it dark or light. All they need is something less obvious. Too much might push away those who would be willing to give it a go.
Maybe names could work with bundle, like Core package or something like that. Black is already used in the premium version.

I think the best trick, while using the color black or a something as specific, is to make people associate game casings with a type of challenge or type (not genre) of game.



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torok on 02 February 2014

I don't think the casuals are the blue ocean anymore. You got Android and iOS pumping US$ 1 or simply free games for devices people already own. We will probably have a US$ 99 Applet TV running games with a controller and some Android devices too (forget Ouya, I mean devices made by big guys like Samsung). A lot of companies, a lot of money, things simply going as cheap as possible. This ocean is completely blood red now. It doesn't matter whant Nintendo does, people will by iPads first because that's the hot new thing.

It's time for them to return to the hardcire gaming arena. There is space, only two competitors and lots of money running (I mean, look at GTA V). Casual consumers won't buy US$ 60 games when they can buy US$ 1 ones, because they can't understand the quality difference or don't care. Sony and MS now are on the side of the market that does understand it and won't replace their shiny new consoles and 60' TVs for a simplistic mobile game (at least on home consoles, handhelds are other story since people just want distraction when going mobile, not necessarily a high quality entertaining).



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Alby_da_Wolf on 03 February 2014

Guys, you're overcomplicating all this, a big problem of Wii U is bad communication, it looks like it be not totally clear to Ninty itself what to do with it, and surely it isn't to users. Whatever the strategy chosen, it will be of the essence that Ninty focus on it, and that it markets it as clearly and effectively as possible to users. So if they'll want to target different markets, they'll have to devise different marketing communications for each of the most sought after user groups they want to attract. Focus, dedication and clear and clearly marketed strategy aren't of the essence to attract just users, but 3rd parties too.



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DélioPT on 03 February 2014
padib said:
DélioPT said:

I wouldn`t call it dark or light. All they need is something less obvious. Too much might push away those who would be willing to give it a go.
Maybe names could work with bundle, like Core package or something like that. Black is already used in the premium version.

I think the best trick, while using the color black or a something as specific, is to make people associate game casings with a type of challenge or type (not genre) of game.

I don't get it.

What i was trying to get at is that maybe giving it names wouldn`t be the best idea.
Making games stand with different casings or even a console with a different caing when it`s bundled, might be best.

Let people make the association of different casings = special experiences.

Maybe this is basically what you were trying to say all along!



DélioPT on 03 February 2014
padib said:
DélioPT said:

What i was trying to get at is that maybe giving it names wouldn`t be the best idea.
Making games stand with different casings or even a console with a different caing when it`s bundled, might be best.

Let people make the association of different casings = special experiences.

Maybe this is basically what you were trying to say all along!

Yeah, and help users in making sure they don't confuse Nintendo's family-friendly image. Also create departments to really push each brand aggressively, and compete (much like Nintendo's development teams used to compete for Yamauchi's recognition).

Alby_da_Wolf said:
Guys, you're overcomplicating all this, a big problem of Wii U is bad communication, it looks like it be not totally clear to Ninty itself what to do with it, and surely it isn't to users. Whatever the strategy chosen, it will be of the essence that Ninty focus on it, and that it markets it as clearly and effectively as possible to users. So if they'll want to target different markets, they'll have to devise different marketing communications for each of the most sought after user groups they want to attract. Focus, dedication and clear and clearly marketed strategy aren't of the essence to attract just userbut 3rd parties too.

I wholeheartedly agree. Whether they use this idea or not, the most important thing is that they are aggressive in marketing.

The OP idea was intended to make that marketing even more agressive while allowing Nintendo to protect its family-friendly image.

I don`t know if the best idea is to make them compete. That competition, from a consumer`s point of view might bring some divisiom

The best way might be: "here, start with this and when you want something, this is what we have for you!
Not a competition, but an upgrade or challenge that people could take on.



DélioPT on 03 February 2014
padib said:
DélioPT said:

I don`t know if the best idea is to make them compete. That competition, from a consumer`s point of view might bring some divisiom

The best way might be: "here, start with this and when you want something, this is what we have for you!
Not a competition, but an upgrade or challenge that people could take on.

I guess the division would be the key result Nintendo would want to achieve with this idea because this division basically allows them to duplicate themselves. They now have the power of two, and can have two personas at once, and do whatever they want with each, without affecting each persona individually. With this, Nintendo keeps its family friendly image because it is separated from its new focus on the darker content. And it allows its darker content to not get tainted by their family-friendly image.

It's a bit of a yin and yang approach to Nintendo, allowing them to free themselves from the hate they get from the darker audience for being too family-friendly, all the while allowing them to keep a hold on their most lucrative business, the family-friendly business.

It's not just a marketing idea to increase sales, it's really a question of conquest and a means to get there if desired.

A core gamer knows Nintendo`s plans and titles. So wouldn`t that idea be less efective on them?

On a more casual gamer/non gamer wouldn`t it be best to show that there`s more to Mario, Dk, Wii Sports? Something that they can ALSO try, instead of outting a barrier between the two angles? A lot of casuals also try shooters, for example. But they could also be attracted to Mario, Wii titles.

I think one way could create something extra for Nintendo consumers, while the other kinda divides them.
At least that`s my take.