By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Iwata: No More Separate Gaming Platforms From Nintendo

Soundwave said:....

Not even Wii was that behind in terms of raw power compared to what likely will be considered "low-end" by the time 2016 comes around. Plus, 400GFLOPS from 200 GFLOPS wouldn't be enough to bring up that resolution from 480-540 to a full 1080p. There is over 5 times the pixel count from 480p to 1080p, and 4 times the pixel count from 540 to 1080p. If they're supposed to be the same architecture, the console box won't have some magical architecture to bring up the performance enough to 1080p, and another 720p generation is extremely unlikely now that Nintendo realized that HD caught on much sooner than expected when they were in the middle of the Wii phase.

There are problems with Nintendo's consoles right now, however that doesn't mean Nintendo is not being capable of handling two consoles any longer, they were the ones that caused those issues in the first place. I'm pretty sure you know what Wii U's problems are (which can EASILY be fixed with their future console), and 3DS is still a bit too high on the price side for it to be selling amazingly like past handhelds. I don't count 2DS quite yet because it was only available for a few months this past year.



Around the Network

I don't think Nintendo wants to handle two consoles any longer. That's the whole reason for the new Nintendo "lifestyle" business ... that will be their second pillar, which allows them to unify their console/HH business.

It's time honestly ... today with the advances in mobile chip tech you can finally do this.

Sure ok, maybe the home dock would feature a 4x cluster of GPU cores that are clocked higher (that probably takes you to 1080P). But these are more of the details I'm sure they can iron out. It's an idea that's time simply has come IMO.

They should honestly get on it before Apple starts getting too cozy selling game apps on the television.



padib said:
I think the Software API will be unified, but take advantages of the strengths of the stronger one when possible. The OS will also be based on the same software platform.


these are my thoughts exactly. I don't think they will be doing a hybrid Soundwave



Soundwave said:
I don't think Nintendo wants to handle two consoles any longer. That's the whole reason for the new Nintendo "lifestyle" business ... that will be their second pillar, which allows them to unify their console/HH business.

It's time honestly ... today with the advances in mobile chip tech you can finally do this.

Sure ok, maybe the home dock would feature a 4x cluster of GPU cores that are clocked higher (that probably takes you to 1080P). But these are more of the details I'm sure they can iron out. It's an idea that's time simply has come IMO.

They should honestly get on it before Apple starts getting too cozy selling game apps on the television.

No, I think Nintendo doesn't want to handle two DIFFERENT consoles any longer. With shared architectures, they won't need to to worry about learning so much about the other console, droughts will be lesser of a problem, which what I think they're going for.

As for this "dock", increasing raw power like that will liikely make it far more expensive than the handheld. "Ironing" out these details won't be as simple as you think, something with 4x the GPU power of the handheld as a dock will not make it an attractive product, if it's ONLY to "dock" the handheld. This will mean the people who will be buying it, will be the handheld owners and no one else, otherwise it'll be useless. Let's look at the AMD R7 240, that's a 320 shader card, you can buy this for $74.99. Let's "multiply the shader cores by four", now it's a 1280 shader card (the R9 270), this one is currenlty $209.99. That's already a $135 difference. If the handheld goes for $199, this "dock" will not only need this "more powerful" GPU, it'll also need: an upclocked CPU with more raw power, more RAM potentially (DDR4 perhaps), some forms of storage, these "connectors" that dock the handheld, it will also need a better cooling system to handle all of that .....yeah, we're talking about well over $300 dollars...... for a "dock"? Either they make a full console out of this, or they don't do this at all, because this thing will likely sell terribly. 

Add: I'm pretty sure Nintendo doesn't want another Gamecube-like situation in terms of sales, and that's where this "dock" will likely be going...no...it'll do a LOT worse. 



So, as I was thinking, they dump the home-console concept for the next generation. Or they still make it, but I dunno how it can compete with new nintendo handheld(same games) that are more popular, or PlayStation + Xbox home consoles that are much more powerfull.



Around the Network

next Pokemon game will be playable on the home console, YAY!!



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(

forethought14 said:
Soundwave said:
I don't think Nintendo wants to handle two consoles any longer. That's the whole reason for the new Nintendo "lifestyle" business ... that will be their second pillar, which allows them to unify their console/HH business.

It's time honestly ... today with the advances in mobile chip tech you can finally do this.

Sure ok, maybe the home dock would feature a 4x cluster of GPU cores that are clocked higher (that probably takes you to 1080P). But these are more of the details I'm sure they can iron out. It's an idea that's time simply has come IMO.

They should honestly get on it before Apple starts getting too cozy selling game apps on the television.

No, I think Nintendo doesn't want to handle two DIFFERENT consoles any longer. With shared architectures, they won't need to to worry about learning so much about the other console, droughts will be lesser of a problem, which what I think they're going for.

As for this "dock", increasing raw power like that will liikely make it far more expensive than the handheld. "Ironing" out these details won't be as simple as you think, something with 4x the GPU power of the handheld as a dock will not make it an attractive product, if it's ONLY to "dock" the handheld. This will mean the people who will be buying it, will be the handheld owners and no one else, otherwise it'll be useless. Let's look at the AMD R7 240, that's a 320 shader card, you can buy this for $74.99. Let's "multiply the shader cores by four", now it's a 1280 shader card (the R9 270), this one is currenlty $209.99. That's already a $135 difference. If the handheld goes for $199, this "dock" will not only need this "more powerful" GPU, it'll also need: an upclocked CPU with more raw power, more RAM potentially (DDR4 perhaps), some forms of storage, these "connectors" that dock the handheld, it will also need a better cooling system to handle all of that .....yeah, we're talking about well over $300 dollars...... for a "dock"? Either they make a full console out of this, or they don't do this at all, because this thing will likely sell terribly. 

Add: I'm pretty sure Nintendo doesn't want another Gamecube-like situation in terms of sales, and that's where this "dock" will likely be going...no...it'll do a LOT worse. 


Wait and see. I stand by my points and I believe in about 1-2 years it will be borne out just like clockwork. 

Nintendo is done with the old-fashioned console. 

The next "console" will be a optional companion device for their handheld which plays the same games, just with better resolution/fidelity for a larger screen TV display. You will able to get the same games on both platforms, and continue playing your game seamlessly from the road, to the TV, to your bedroom, to the bus, etc. etc. 

It will use mobile CPU + GPU tech, which is extremely stackable, scalable, power efficient, size efficient, and cheap. The "home dock" version will be about the size of a Vita TV. The performance will be similar to the Wii U, better in some ways, but more or less the same in others. 



Soundwave said:

The other thing that I think could be possible is the concept of a "stackable" chipset ... meaning the handheld and "home dock" could connect together and share hardware resources. Wired connections like Thunderbolt are incredibly fast these days.

I think something (combined HH + home dock) in the range of a

Quad-Core ARM CPU (becomes an 8-core CPU when linked)
Dual-Core SGX PowerVR Series 6 (200 GFLOP approx, 400+ GFLOP when "linked")
2GB RAM (becomes 4GB RAM when linked)

Plays games at Wii U+ fidelity on handheld at about 480-540 resolution on the go. But when you have the home dock you can play at home at full 1080p resolution.

I can see that. Handheld for $200, home dock for $120 or so.

The fitness/quality of life stuff will become Nintendo's second pillar. I'd bet this setup would make more money than the dated current Nintendo console that only Nintendo fans want + old fashioned Nintendo handheld setup which has lost them money for 3 straight years (probably going on 4). 

I think you are complicating what could be easier to do.

I agree that both devices should be designed to use compatible hardware components, but in a scalable manner. Think about it (note that I'm using hardware that we all could recognize, not what they will use).

CPU:

  • Home console: 8 core AMD 64bit "A" architecture running at 2,0 GHz
  • Handheld: 2 core AMD 64bit "A" architecture running at 2,0 GHz / alternatively: 4 core AMD 64bit "A" architecture running at 1,0 GHz

GPU (I'll use the HD 7xxx family as an example):

  • Home console: HD 7870 variant with 1,280 shaders running at 800 MHz
  • Handheld: HD 7750 variant with 640 shaders running at 500 MHz

RAM:

  • Home console: 8 GB of ? memory
  • Handheld: 2 GB of the same kind of memory

With those specs and a single OS, the home console can run all the handheld games with ease, while the handheld could run a small minority of the home console games (or a big part of them if they are build with both hardwares in mind so that it scales acordingly). After all, Nintendo will still want to make us buy both devices, so it's likely that not all home console games will be able to run on the handheld.

And at the same time, the handheld can be used as an extra controller for the home console.

 

Although knowing how Nintendo and how they can make the simple things a lot complicated and the complicated very simple, any guess of what they are planning is just wistful thinking.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

So from what I understand they want to keep platforms separate but release the same or similar APIs for both the handheld and console and similar OSs(it's not like the 3DS and WiiU main mrnu's aren't carbon clones already), and while both machines will feature similar development, the API will be able to take full advantage of the Next Console's power, so while development is almost identical on both platforms, the handheld wouldn't be a burden on the amount of power the Console will have. kinda like running Windows 7 on a 400$ and 4000$ PC, the OS works on both of them and development is easily movable between platforms, but the 4000$ PC can handle much more and Windows 7 allows that extra power to be used.



JEMC said:
Soundwave said:

The other thing that I think could be possible is the concept of a "stackable" chipset ... meaning the handheld and "home dock" could connect together and share hardware resources. Wired connections like Thunderbolt are incredibly fast these days.

I think something (combined HH + home dock) in the range of a

Quad-Core ARM CPU (becomes an 8-core CPU when linked)
Dual-Core SGX PowerVR Series 6 (200 GFLOP approx, 400+ GFLOP when "linked")
2GB RAM (becomes 4GB RAM when linked)

Plays games at Wii U+ fidelity on handheld at about 480-540 resolution on the go. But when you have the home dock you can play at home at full 1080p resolution.

I can see that. Handheld for $200, home dock for $120 or so.

The fitness/quality of life stuff will become Nintendo's second pillar. I'd bet this setup would make more money than the dated current Nintendo console that only Nintendo fans want + old fashioned Nintendo handheld setup which has lost them money for 3 straight years (probably going on 4). 

I think you are complicating what could be easier to do.

I agree that both devices should be designed to use compatible hardware components, but in a scalable manner. Think about it (note that I'm using hardware that we all could recognize, not what they will use).

CPU:

  • Home console: 8 core AMD 64bit "A" architecture running at 2,0 GHz
  • Handheld: 2 core AMD 64bit "A" architecture running at 2,0 GHz / alternatively: 4 core AMD 64bit "A" architecture running at 1,0 GHz

GPU (I'll use the HD 7xxx family as an example):

  • Home console: HD 7870 variant with 1,280 shaders running at 800 MHz
  • Handheld: HD 7750 variant with 640 shaders running at 500 MHz

RAM:

  • Home console: 8 GB of ? memory
  • Handheld: 2 GB of the same kind of memory

With those specs and a single OS, the home console can run all the handheld games with ease, while the handheld could run a small minority of the home console games (or a big part of them if they are build with both hardwares in mind so that it scales acordingly). After all, Nintendo will still want to make us buy both devices, so it's likely that not all home console games will be able to run on the handheld.

And at the same time, the handheld can be used as an extra controller for the home console.

 

Although knowing how Nintendo and how they can make the simple things a lot complicated and the complicated very simple, any guess of what they are planning is just wistful thinking.

Nope, I think the next set of Nintendo gaming hardware will "break" this tradition of the home console being the "main" platform. Next time around the handheld is going to be the main console. The home console will be dramatically reimagined to be a companion for the handheld. 

And yes, I think it will be a mind f*ck for certain Nintendo fans for a couple of days, but they'll get over their boo hooing, just like originally when Project: Revolution was announced most Nintendo fans played up the idea that it would have graphics parity with the PS3/360 just in SD resolution or some nonsense. 

They couldn't understand the concept behind the machine though until it was shown and explained to them clearly, that the Wii was a different console that didn't adhere to the preconceived notion of each console being a quantum leap in processing power but was focused on something else entirely. 

My feeling is the GPU will almost definitely be a tablet/phone GPU too, but a powerful one like PowerVR G6430 or G6630, which Nintendo can easily arrange in multiple cores (say 2 cores for the handheld downclocked a bit, the home dock could have 4 cores running at max clock since it doesn't have to run off battery). 

It should be fairly easy for devs to make games with the visual fidelity of say an XBox 360 or Wii U title for play on the go, and with the stackable core setup they'll be easily able to offer home console versions of those games that run at a higher resolution as well.