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Forums - Nintendo - Do you think Zelda U will have better graphics then the tech demo 2011 ?

 

Better or worse ?

Better 274 59.44%
 
Worse 104 22.56%
 
Same 79 17.14%
 
Total:457
curl-6 on 28 January 2014
spemanig said:
curl-6 said:
spemanig said:

curl-6 said:

No it wouldn't have. GCN had Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime, Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes, and Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time. If those "dark and gritty games" couldn't help, Zelda wouldn't have either. And let's not forget that Wind Waker was the 4th best selling game on the system, behind only Mario Kart, Super Smash Bros, and 3D Mario. The minority of anal gamers have mighty loud voices, but the sales beg to differ.

And guess what? Wind Waker HD was now met with great praise and enthusiasm. What's that say about gamers now?

The sales show Twlight Princess is far more desirable than WW's approach.

And a remake of TP using the tech demo graphics would have sold over double what WW HD has by now.


Empty words. There is literally no agreeable proof to back that up. Like someone else said, 120 million installed base vs 20 million. And even then, Wind Waker was the 4th best selling game on GCN. Twilight Princess was 17th on the Wii.

Here's some more numbers: 4.6 million (Wind Waker) and 8.5 million. (Twilight Princess)

A smaller install base didn't stop Goldeneye on N64 outselling Goldeneye on Wii, PS3, and 360 combined.



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Frogger on 28 January 2014
curl-6 said:
F0X said:

You say these things, but what evidence do you have? Outrage from people who thought the game would look like the demo? That's not quantifiable. What is, then? Well, Wind Waker is the 4th best-selling game on GameCube (only surpassed by larger Nintendo franchises), and it recieved an immese amount of acclaim upon release. 96/100 on Metacritic, equal to the GC version of Twilight Princess. That level of praise is typically reserved for games with large mainsteam and hardcore appeal. And once the 4.6 million sales are put into the context of install base, I don't see how the game can be considered a failure, or widely shunned, even if you personally feel as if Nintendo should have changed certain aspects of the game in order for it to be more successful.

My argument is both straightforward and backed by numbers. The Wii was far more successful than the GameCube. Twilight Princess was released on both systems. It had a massive advantage and there's no room for dispute.

GCN's "kiddy" image is well known as one of the system's biggest stumbling blocks. And Wind Waker was a big contributer to this image. What message does it send gamers looking for a next gen successor to Ocarina of Time when in addition to the system looking like a fisher price toy, its flagship Zelda looks like an children's cartoon? 

Nope. PS2 being a cheaper DVD player was. And Ocarina was rated E for everyone with cartoon graphics where you played as a 10 year old kid with pointy ears and a skirt. Let's not bring up "kiddy" here.



curl-6 on 28 January 2014
spemanig said:
curl-6 said:
F0X said:

You say these things, but what evidence do you have? Outrage from people who thought the game would look like the demo? That's not quantifiable. What is, then? Well, Wind Waker is the 4th best-selling game on GameCube (only surpassed by larger Nintendo franchises), and it recieved an immese amount of acclaim upon release. 96/100 on Metacritic, equal to the GC version of Twilight Princess. That level of praise is typically reserved for games with large mainsteam and hardcore appeal. And once the 4.6 million sales are put into the context of install base, I don't see how the game can be considered a failure, or widely shunned, even if you personally feel as if Nintendo should have changed certain aspects of the game in order for it to be more successful.

My argument is both straightforward and backed by numbers. The Wii was far more successful than the GameCube. Twilight Princess was released on both systems. It had a massive advantage and there's no room for dispute.

GCN's "kiddy" image is well known as one of the system's biggest stumbling blocks. And Wind Waker was a big contributer to this image. What message does it send gamers looking for a next gen successor to Ocarina of Time when in addition to the system looking like a fisher price toy, its flagship Zelda looks like an children's cartoon? 

Nope. PS2 being a cheaper DVD player was. And Ocarina was rated E for everyone with cartoon graphics where you played as a 10 year old kid with pointy ears and a skirt. Let's not bring up "kiddy" here.

Ocarina's graphics were realistic for the hardware.



Frogger on 28 January 2014
curl-6 said:
spemanig said:
curl-6 said:
F0X said:

You say these things, but what evidence do you have? Outrage from people who thought the game would look like the demo? That's not quantifiable. What is, then? Well, Wind Waker is the 4th best-selling game on GameCube (only surpassed by larger Nintendo franchises), and it recieved an immese amount of acclaim upon release. 96/100 on Metacritic, equal to the GC version of Twilight Princess. That level of praise is typically reserved for games with large mainsteam and hardcore appeal. And once the 4.6 million sales are put into the context of install base, I don't see how the game can be considered a failure, or widely shunned, even if you personally feel as if Nintendo should have changed certain aspects of the game in order for it to be more successful.

My argument is both straightforward and backed by numbers. The Wii was far more successful than the GameCube. Twilight Princess was released on both systems. It had a massive advantage and there's no room for dispute.

GCN's "kiddy" image is well known as one of the system's biggest stumbling blocks. And Wind Waker was a big contributer to this image. What message does it send gamers looking for a next gen successor to Ocarina of Time when in addition to the system looking like a fisher price toy, its flagship Zelda looks like an children's cartoon? 

Nope. PS2 being a cheaper DVD player was. And Ocarina was rated E for everyone with cartoon graphics where you played as a 10 year old kid with pointy ears and a skirt. Let's not bring up "kiddy" here.

Ocarina's graphics were realistic for the hardware.


No. Perfect Dark and Golden Eye's graphics were "realistic for the hardware." Ocarina of Time was a kiddie game for little kids. I played it when I was five and loved every cartoony moment of it. I loved flying on chickens. I loved beating a Super Luigi parody in a pony race. I loved Waking up a Super Mario parody with my pocket rooster. I loved getting a giant fish god to let me explore his innards by feeding him a littler fish, all to save a fish princess. Realistic? Lolol.



F0X on 28 January 2014
curl-6 said:
F0X said:
curl-6 said:

GCN's "kiddy" image is well known as one of the system's biggest stumbling blocks. And Wind Waker was a big contributer to this image. What message does it send gamers looking for a next gen successor to Ocarina of Time when in addition to the system looking like a fisher price toy, its flagship Zelda looks like an children's cartoon? 


That argument always felt off to me. In fact, it seems less like an argument and more like a talking point repeatedly brought up by Xbox fans circa 2004. A "kiddy" image didn't stop game/hardware sales in the past. Heck, the handheld market is still driven by cartoonish-looking games like Pokemon. The mobile market has Angry Birds. Cartoon-ish graphics do appeal to the mainstream gamer. Realistic art design still clearly has its place, but inheriently not to the detriment of other styles.

From what I see, what matters more is accesibility, and on that front, the Wii obliterated the GameCube and became far more successful.

I'm not saying it was the GCN's only commercial drawback, just that it was a major one, as it really hampered Nintendo's attempts to capture the crowd who were into GTA, Halo, etc.

The 6th gen console market was quite a bit different to the portable market, the mobile market, or the post-Wii console market.


You're not wrong, but I don't think it really matters. I believe Nintendo would've been better off employing the "blue ocean" strategy in 2001, not waiting for 2006 and the advent of motion control. How would that have worked out? I'm not sure. What I do know is that the GameCube wasn't successful and therefore should've have happened. I also know that the competition from Sony was fierce in almost every respect, and Microsoft took the console FPS market. Nintendo needed to play a smarter game back then. And they still need to now, clearly.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

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curl-6 on 28 January 2014
spemanig said:

No. Perfect Dark and Golden Eye's graphics were "realistic for the hardware." Ocarina of Time was a kiddie game for little kids. I played it when I was five and loved every cartoony moment of it. I loved flying on chickens. I loved beating a Super Luigi parody in a pony race. I loved Waking up a Super Mario parody with my pocket rooster. I loved getting a giant fish god to let me explore his innards by feeding him a littler fish, all to save a fish princess. Realistic? Lolol.

It wasn't realistic in concept but it was in execution. Textures were detailed instead of flat hunks of cartoonish colour. The colour pallette was dark, not the bright cartoon hues of something like Mario 64.



curl-6 on 28 January 2014
F0X said:
curl-6 said:
F0X said:
curl-6 said:

GCN's "kiddy" image is well known as one of the system's biggest stumbling blocks. And Wind Waker was a big contributer to this image. What message does it send gamers looking for a next gen successor to Ocarina of Time when in addition to the system looking like a fisher price toy, its flagship Zelda looks like an children's cartoon? 


That argument always felt off to me. In fact, it seems less like an argument and more like a talking point repeatedly brought up by Xbox fans circa 2004. A "kiddy" image didn't stop game/hardware sales in the past. Heck, the handheld market is still driven by cartoonish-looking games like Pokemon. The mobile market has Angry Birds. Cartoon-ish graphics do appeal to the mainstream gamer. Realistic art design still clearly has its place, but inheriently not to the detriment of other styles.

From what I see, what matters more is accesibility, and on that front, the Wii obliterated the GameCube and became far more successful.

I'm not saying it was the GCN's only commercial drawback, just that it was a major one, as it really hampered Nintendo's attempts to capture the crowd who were into GTA, Halo, etc.

The 6th gen console market was quite a bit different to the portable market, the mobile market, or the post-Wii console market.


You're not wrong, but I don't think it really matters. I believe Nintendo would've been better off employing the "blue ocean" strategy in 2001, not waiting for 2006 and the advent of motion control. How would that have worked out? I'm not sure. What I do know is that the GameCube wasn't successful and therefore should've have happened. I also know that the competition from Sony was fierce in almost every respect, and Microsoft took the console FPS market. Nintendo needed to play a smarter game back then. And they still need to now, clearly.

This is where we can agree; just like in the 6th gen, Nintendo is on the ropes. The way I see it, to survive they will need to play their cards more cleverly than they did back then, because they can't count on another Wii-esque rise from the ashes.



Frogger on 28 January 2014
curl-6 said:
spemanig said:
curl-6 said:
spemanig said:

curl-6 said:

No it wouldn't have. GCN had Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime, Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes, and Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time. If those "dark and gritty games" couldn't help, Zelda wouldn't have either. And let's not forget that Wind Waker was the 4th best selling game on the system, behind only Mario Kart, Super Smash Bros, and 3D Mario. The minority of anal gamers have mighty loud voices, but the sales beg to differ.

And guess what? Wind Waker HD was now met with great praise and enthusiasm. What's that say about gamers now?

The sales show Twlight Princess is far more desirable than WW's approach.

And a remake of TP using the tech demo graphics would have sold over double what WW HD has by now.


Empty words. There is literally no agreeable proof to back that up. Like someone else said, 120 million installed base vs 20 million. And even then, Wind Waker was the 4th best selling game on GCN. Twilight Princess was 17th on the Wii.

Here's some more numbers: 4.6 million (Wind Waker) and 8.5 million. (Twilight Princess)

A smaller install base didn't stop Goldeneye on N64 outselling Goldeneye on Wii, PS3, and 360 combined.


Here's some more relevant numbers. .23% (Wind Waker) and .07% (Twilight Princess)

That's the attach ratio of the two games one their respected platforms.

And let's not talk about Goldeneye like it's an accurate comparison. Goldeneye was successful because it gave birth to home console shooters. Try comparing it's sales to games like Halo and Call of Duty, which held Goldeneye's torch.



F0X on 28 January 2014
curl-6 said:
spemanig said:


Empty words. There is literally no agreeable proof to back that up. Like someone else said, 120 million installed base vs 20 million. And even then, Wind Waker was the 4th best selling game on GCN. Twilight Princess was 17th on the Wii.

Here's some more numbers: 4.6 million (Wind Waker) and 8.5 million. (Twilight Princess)

A smaller install base didn't stop Goldeneye on N64 outselling Goldeneye on Wii, PS3, and 360 combined.


You're right. We can only assume that a variety of other factors played a part, because to pin a game's sales numbers on one factor is faulty logic.

My point was that install base can be a factor. If one were to blame it on a specific factor like, say, art design, then such a person is essentially claiming that correlation proves causation.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

curl-6 on 28 January 2014
spemanig said:

Here's some more relevant numbers. .23% (Wind Waker) and .07% (Twilight Princess)

That's the attach ratio of the two games one their respected platforms.

And let's not talk about Goldeneye like it's an accurate comparison. Goldeneye was successful because it gave birth to home console shooters. Try comparing it's sales to games like Halo and Call of Duty, which held Goldeneye's torch.

Because only hardcore Nintendo fans bought the GCN, hence a higher attach rate of a Nintendo game.

But Twilight Princess attracted the non-fans as well, hence its higher overall numbers.

And that's what Zelda U needs to do; attract the mainstream, not just the fanatic Nintendo supporters.