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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Spindoctor Aaron Greenberg: "Reporting Can Get Confusing, But We Did Sell 3.9"

shane_stocks on 24 January 2014
ioi said:
shane_stocks said:
Okay listen, I am the guy who asked him (@shane_stocks) and some of you believe it is me who is misinformed rather than Aaron who was spinning.

Let me tell you now, Aaron spinned me big time and thought he would get away with it. There are two types of figures, SHIPPED and SOLD. Every single time a company releases information, it would either say "sold to retailers, shipped, or sold to customer", not just sold.

He is clearly trying to make out publicly that Microsoft has sold "3.9M" consoles, which in a sense is true, to retailers. But he is mis-directing in the purpose of spreading the figure 3.9M SOLD. No, in my world and in everyone elses since these spreadsheets and financial figures began, it is either SOLD THROUGH RETAILER or SOLD TO CUSTOMER.

Look at the COD: Ghosts figure when it was first released. It was clearly marked TO RETAILERS. Look at Microsoft's own god damn quarter report, it clearly states "3.9M to retailers".

At a time where "Major Nelson" asks "STOP THE HATE", the chief of Xbox comes out and shows to be the ultimate fanboy.

He categorically did not make it clear to me which


Welcome to VGChartz. You are on a sales discussion forum so believe me we know the difference.

Manufacturers always use the word SOLD which means how many units they sold into retail. Sony does the same and has been for the last 20 years - Microsoft isn't doing anything misleading by doing this or trying to inflate their figures - they are just using conventional terminology that everyone else uses.

Microsoft already announced they they estimated to have sold around 3m units to consumers by the end of 2013 and now they are saying that they sold 3.9m units to retailers. Both statements are true and neither one is misleading. The fact that they had already announced 3m sold to consumers a couple of weeks ago makes it totally obvious that the 3.9m figure is the to retail figure for that same period.

I see your point, but I disagree with when you suggest people will know the 3.9m meant retail because of the 3.0m figure a few weeks ago.

How come, that the actual Q4 report from Microsoft clearly states 3.9m to retailers, when simply Aaron says "We sold 3.9m Xbox Ones". When anyone mis-informed, who is not a hardcore gamer as such sees that figure, they immediately think "PS4 4.2M, XBOX ONE 3.9M". That was the EXACT intention of why Aaron wrote it like that.

The intention to me was very clear hence why I replied, as I am sick to death of Microsoft spinning absolutely anything then, especially since the reveal of Xbox One. His intention was to misinform customers who are thinking of what console to buy, that the race is extremely close (4.2 - 3.9), and that in fact we have sold 3.9million Xbox Ones in 2013. People immediately see that figure as sold to customer, and Aaron knows it.

I also must mention, he sent a dozen shills to reply to me after the tweet I sent him. Hilarious remarks I have received.



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FlamingWeazel on 24 January 2014
shane_stocks said:
ioi said:
shane_stocks said:
Okay listen, I am the guy who asked him (@shane_stocks) and some of you believe it is me who is misinformed rather than Aaron who was spinning.

Let me tell you now, Aaron spinned me big time and thought he would get away with it. There are two types of figures, SHIPPED and SOLD. Every single time a company releases information, it would either say "sold to retailers, shipped, or sold to customer", not just sold.

He is clearly trying to make out publicly that Microsoft has sold "3.9M" consoles, which in a sense is true, to retailers. But he is mis-directing in the purpose of spreading the figure 3.9M SOLD. No, in my world and in everyone elses since these spreadsheets and financial figures began, it is either SOLD THROUGH RETAILER or SOLD TO CUSTOMER.

Look at the COD: Ghosts figure when it was first released. It was clearly marked TO RETAILERS. Look at Microsoft's own god damn quarter report, it clearly states "3.9M to retailers".

At a time where "Major Nelson" asks "STOP THE HATE", the chief of Xbox comes out and shows to be the ultimate fanboy.

He categorically did not make it clear to me which


Welcome to VGChartz. You are on a sales discussion forum so believe me we know the difference.

Manufacturers always use the word SOLD which means how many units they sold into retail. Sony does the same and has been for the last 20 years - Microsoft isn't doing anything misleading by doing this or trying to inflate their figures - they are just using conventional terminology that everyone else uses.

Microsoft already announced they they estimated to have sold around 3m units to consumers by the end of 2013 and now they are saying that they sold 3.9m units to retailers. Both statements are true and neither one is misleading. The fact that they had already announced 3m sold to consumers a couple of weeks ago makes it totally obvious that the 3.9m figure is the to retail figure for that same period.

I see your point, but I disagree with when you suggest people will know the 3.9m meant retail because of the 3.0m figure a few weeks ago.

How come, that the actual Q4 report from Microsoft clearly states 3.9m to retailers, when simply Aaron says "We sold 3.9m Xbox Ones". When anyone mis-informed, who is not a hardcore gamer as such sees that figure, they immediately think "PS4 4.2M, XBOX ONE 3.9M". That was the EXACT intention of why Aaron wrote it like that.

The intention to me was very clear hence why I replied, as I am sick to death of Microsoft spinning absolutely anything then, especially since the reveal of Xbox One. His intention was to misinform customers who are thinking of what console to buy, that the race is extremely close (4.2 - 3.9), and that in fact we have sold 3.9million Xbox Ones in 2013. People immediately see that figure as sold to customer, and Aaron knows it.

Aaron is a pure fanboy in his own write, and not very professional. He favourited a tweet that said to me (from one of his shills he sent onto me after I sent the tweet) "PS4 fanboys are scared of Titanfall". Aaron has actually favourited that. 


I  agree, seemed obviosuly to me but ioi disagrees. Most don't know there is a diff between sold to consumer or what sold to retailer is. His intent looked obvious to make it look to most people it sold 3.9, not sold to consumers. But I digress, please don't ban me lol.



2008ProchargedGT on 24 January 2014
ioi said:
FlamingWeazel said:

There is no way there is a flat right/wrong, only greenberg knows what his intention was.  I never said greenberg brought it up, but he sure never explained it properly just gave a vague it's sold..ok, to someone who doesn;t understand there is even a  difference... Like most of his twitter followers..

It is a flat right and wrong.

He said nothing that was incorrect and nothing he said was said in a misleading way.

You are twisting it into something that was never there.


This is you opinion anh he is entitled to his, just becayse you oerate the site dosent give you the right to tell others they are wrong and can't have an opinion.



J_Allard on 24 January 2014

The best part is its users on a sales site where we all know what these corporations mean by sold and yet people are still acting like MS is trying to pull wool over their eyes LOL



FlamingWeazel on 24 January 2014
2008ProchargedGT said:
ioi said:
FlamingWeazel said:

There is no way there is a flat right/wrong, only greenberg knows what his intention was.  I never said greenberg brought it up, but he sure never explained it properly just gave a vague it's sold..ok, to someone who doesn;t understand there is even a  difference... Like most of his twitter followers..

It is a flat right and wrong.

He said nothing that was incorrect and nothing he said was said in a misleading way.

You are twisting it into something that was never there.


This is you opinion anh he is entitled to his, just becayse you oerate the site dosent give you the right to tell others they are wrong and can't have an opinion.

Apparently you are not this is becomg like north korea it seems.  Threatening users and everything.



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shane_stocks on 24 January 2014
ioi said:
shane_stocks said:

How come, that the actual Q4 report from Microsoft clearly states 3.9m to retailers, when simply Aaron says "We sold 3.9m Xbox Ones".

When did he say they sold 3.9m Xbox Ones?

In the very reply he sent me via OP.

"But we did sell 3.9"



MessiaH on 24 January 2014

Hahaha that kid is a total jackass.



Somini on 24 January 2014
shane_stocks said:
ioi said:
shane_stocks said:

How come, that the actual Q4 report from Microsoft clearly states 3.9m to retailers, when simply Aaron says "We sold 3.9m Xbox Ones".

When did he say they sold 3.9m Xbox Ones?

In the very reply he sent me via OP.

"But we did sell 3.9"

Exactly. Shane was arguing that the number is shipped, but he still insisted on use of the word "sold"

He wouldn't have if he wanted us to think that there is no difference between the two.



DonFerrari on 24 January 2014
ioi said:
DonFerrari said:

Man, you appeared in like two threads in the last weeks and you have patronized and done personal attacks on 3 users already?? Pezus, ethomaz and this new guy and even threating ban hammer if you were more active??? Please read the rules of your own forum and stop attacking your "customers"

Please read my own rules? I wrote them!

I've been active on a lot of side projects lately but it seems obvious that these forums have become a little out of hand just lately. I've spotted at least 6-8 users (and you are on that list as well by the way, I haven't had chance to get around to you as yet) who are clearly on here to flame, wind people up and have absolutely no impartiality or logic when they discuss something. VGChartz is a place of neutral, productive, factual discussion - not just another cesspit of fanboyism and pointless, illogical discussions. When I build this site we had high standards and it looks like I'm going to have a lot of work to do to get us back there!

You seemed just like a dictator right know... And I know I'll probably get banned for any reason by going after you... and perhaps you should frequent more your own website and have more staff and mod meeting to see their ban historic, protected members, etc...

You may think I'm flaming Xbox, which I'm not, tired of being banned for silly jokes at it. I'm firmly disagreeing of Aaron posture... he as the front man on this case (as you in the case of this site) must set the standard, not bend things to their will... So while people think he didn't had any purpose in not saying it was sold to retail not to customer I and others will keep disagreeing... you know why? Because you aren't the onwer of the truth in this case as none of us is... So if you want to say "In your opinion he wasn't spinning, just talking about sold to retail without any agenda" I won't disagree, but if you say that he is 100% factually saying it and you are sure, then you are putting your opinion as fact and not being neutral, and not holding the standard you say you created your site on.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

BMaker11 on 24 January 2014
kowenicki said:

For fuck sake does it matter? every little thing....

We all know what he means.

He isn't spinning anything. Even the official ms slides from the financials slideshow say sold.





I expect you to leap on any ninty or sony exec that uses the sold word in the future.

Funny, because in the last gen whenever Sony revealed numbers, everyone was quick to jump on them: "That's just X million consoles SHIPPED! Not SOLD THROUGH". And MS supposedly always gave sold through numbers.

Now MS gives shipped numbers, and all of a sudden, it doesn't matter anymore