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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Industry insider : Watch dogs will be better on PS4, gap wil widen

BigT on 23 January 2014
FlamingWeazel said:
vivster said:
Ashadian said:
vivster said:
I don't think the gap will widen. I don't even think the games will advance much beyond this point. The PS4 has a very simple and straight forward architecture. Nothing you would have to get the kinks out. The X1 has more potential to advance because of the uncomfortable and complex architecture.
I'm not saying that it will close the gap or will ever have experiences on par with PS4 but there are possibilities to make the games run better with lots of optimization.


I don't know how you have come to this conclusion? The architecture for the X1 is similar to the PS4 barring memory/ESRAM and a more powerful GPU. The gap will widen as the PS4 has the most IMPORTANT ADVANTAGE a more powerful and capable GPU. Faster Unified RAM and ease of development.

The ESRAM makes a pretty huge difference. The developers are pretty much forced to use it if they want to leverage the sparse power of the X1. If it is utilized correctly it can surpass the GDDR5 in speed. But that's very hard and time consuming. Of course nothing can replace the missing GPU units but with good utilization it can come a bit closer to the PS4s power.

On the PS4s side I see nothing to improve. I would regard this architecture as the most simple architecture for consoles ever conceived. CPU and GPU on one dice and unified extremely fast RAM for both. Sure there may be some optimizations of code and multiple core utilization but that will happen on the X1 as well.


Sigh not this again.. No the 32 mb of esram will not come close to making up the unified GDDR5 ram pool of the ps4, then there is the biggest factor...the GPU.  esram is not new, 360 had it as well  as the wii-u, it's not new for devs. There is also the point that ps4 will also improver as drivers, and dev kits and techniques improve, lets not pretend the x1 is the only platform that improves......

 

The biggest reason though is the GPU, and no amount of techniques, esram is going to offset that difference.


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vivster on 23 January 2014
FlamingWeazel said:
vivster said:
Ashadian said:
vivster said:
I don't think the gap will widen. I don't even think the games will advance much beyond this point. The PS4 has a very simple and straight forward architecture. Nothing you would have to get the kinks out. The X1 has more potential to advance because of the uncomfortable and complex architecture.
I'm not saying that it will close the gap or will ever have experiences on par with PS4 but there are possibilities to make the games run better with lots of optimization.


I don't know how you have come to this conclusion? The architecture for the X1 is similar to the PS4 barring memory/ESRAM and a more powerful GPU. The gap will widen as the PS4 has the most IMPORTANT ADVANTAGE a more powerful and capable GPU. Faster Unified RAM and ease of development.

The ESRAM makes a pretty huge difference. The developers are pretty much forced to use it if they want to leverage the sparse power of the X1. If it is utilized correctly it can surpass the GDDR5 in speed. But that's very hard and time consuming. Of course nothing can replace the missing GPU units but with good utilization it can come a bit closer to the PS4s power.

On the PS4s side I see nothing to improve. I would regard this architecture as the most simple architecture for consoles ever conceived. CPU and GPU on one dice and unified extremely fast RAM for both. Sure there may be some optimizations of code and multiple core utilization but that will happen on the X1 as well.


Sigh not this again.. No the 32 mb of esram will not come close to making up the unified GDDR5 ram pool of the ps4, then there is the biggest factor...the GPU.  esram is not new, 360 had it as well  as the wii-u, it's not new for devs. There is also the point that ps4 will also improver as drivers, and dev kits and techniques improve, lets not pretend the x1 is the only platform that improves......

 

The biggest reason though is the GPU, and no amount of techniques, esram is going to offset that difference.

You just repeated what I just said. Your point?



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vivster on 23 January 2014
BigT said:
vivster said:
Ashadian said:
vivster said:
I don't think the gap will widen. I don't even think the games will advance much beyond this point. The PS4 has a very simple and straight forward architecture. Nothing you would have to get the kinks out. The X1 has more potential to advance because of the uncomfortable and complex architecture.
I'm not saying that it will close the gap or will ever have experiences on par with PS4 but there are possibilities to make the games run better with lots of optimization.


I don't know how you have come to this conclusion? The architecture for the X1 is similar to the PS4 barring memory/ESRAM and a more powerful GPU. The gap will widen as the PS4 has the most IMPORTANT ADVANTAGE a more powerful and capable GPU. Faster Unified RAM and ease of development.

The ESRAM makes a pretty huge difference. The developers are pretty much forced to use it if they want to leverage the sparse power of the X1. If it is utilized correctly it can surpass the GDDR5 in speed. But that's very hard and time consuming. Of course nothing can replace the missing GPU units but with good utilization it can come a bit closer to the PS4s power.

On the PS4s side I see nothing to improve. I would regard this architecture as the most simple architecture for consoles ever conceived. CPU and GPU on one dice and unified extremely fast RAM for both. Sure there may be some optimizations of code and multiple core utilization but that will happen on the X1 as well.

Sounds like you are praising the PS4's architecture and slamming the X1's. Thats not like you

I'm saying that the PS4's architecture is simpler and more developer friendly than the X!'s architecture. I'm just repeating what every dev who had something to say about the issue said. How is that slamming?

But if it makes you feel better, the Cell architecture of the PS3 was beyond shit and probably the most unfriendly system ever conceived for consoles.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

leo-j on 23 January 2014

considering the fact watch dogs barely looked half a gen better than GTA V in that ps4 gameplay demonstration in 2013..

it better look way better than it did back then.. if not it doesn't matter, as not many ps4/xbox one games have shown a true leap in visuals from the likes of Uncharted and God of war



 

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BigT on 23 January 2014
vivster said:
BigT said:
vivster said:
Ashadian said:
vivster said:
I don't think the gap will widen. I don't even think the games will advance much beyond this point. The PS4 has a very simple and straight forward architecture. Nothing you would have to get the kinks out. The X1 has more potential to advance because of the uncomfortable and complex architecture.
I'm not saying that it will close the gap or will ever have experiences on par with PS4 but there are possibilities to make the games run better with lots of optimization.


I don't know how you have come to this conclusion? The architecture for the X1 is similar to the PS4 barring memory/ESRAM and a more powerful GPU. The gap will widen as the PS4 has the most IMPORTANT ADVANTAGE a more powerful and capable GPU. Faster Unified RAM and ease of development.

The ESRAM makes a pretty huge difference. The developers are pretty much forced to use it if they want to leverage the sparse power of the X1. If it is utilized correctly it can surpass the GDDR5 in speed. But that's very hard and time consuming. Of course nothing can replace the missing GPU units but with good utilization it can come a bit closer to the PS4s power.

On the PS4s side I see nothing to improve. I would regard this architecture as the most simple architecture for consoles ever conceived. CPU and GPU on one dice and unified extremely fast RAM for both. Sure there may be some optimizations of code and multiple core utilization but that will happen on the X1 as well.

Sounds like you are praising the PS4's architecture and slamming the X1's. Thats not like you

I'm saying that the PS4's architecture is simpler and more developer friendly than the X!'s architecture. I'm just repeating what every dev who had something to say about the issue said. How is that slamming?

But if it makes you feel better, the Cell architecture of the PS3 was beyond shit and probably the most unfriendly system ever conceived for consoles.

If a Sony fanboy would of called the X1's architecture uncomfortable and complex you may have thought he/she was slamming it thats all.

The cell on the other hand was complex and the devs gave the PS3 crappy looking games compaired to the 360. Sony in the end did show you the power of the cell by producing graphically superior games from it's first party studios.



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Somini on 23 January 2014

I wonder if there ever will be a multiplatform game that's not gimped on the Xbone?



Turkish on 23 January 2014
vivster said:
FlamingWeazel said:
vivster said:
Ashadian said:
vivster said:
I don't think the gap will widen. I don't even think the games will advance much beyond this point. The PS4 has a very simple and straight forward architecture. Nothing you would have to get the kinks out. The X1 has more potential to advance because of the uncomfortable and complex architecture.
I'm not saying that it will close the gap or will ever have experiences on par with PS4 but there are possibilities to make the games run better with lots of optimization.


I don't know how you have come to this conclusion? The architecture for the X1 is similar to the PS4 barring memory/ESRAM and a more powerful GPU. The gap will widen as the PS4 has the most IMPORTANT ADVANTAGE a more powerful and capable GPU. Faster Unified RAM and ease of development.

The ESRAM makes a pretty huge difference. The developers are pretty much forced to use it if they want to leverage the sparse power of the X1. If it is utilized correctly it can surpass the GDDR5 in speed. But that's very hard and time consuming. Of course nothing can replace the missing GPU units but with good utilization it can come a bit closer to the PS4s power.

On the PS4s side I see nothing to improve. I would regard this architecture as the most simple architecture for consoles ever conceived. CPU and GPU on one dice and unified extremely fast RAM for both. Sure there may be some optimizations of code and multiple core utilization but that will happen on the X1 as well.


Sigh not this again.. No the 32 mb of esram will not come close to making up the unified GDDR5 ram pool of the ps4, then there is the biggest factor...the GPU.  esram is not new, 360 had it as well  as the wii-u, it's not new for devs. There is also the point that ps4 will also improver as drivers, and dev kits and techniques improve, lets not pretend the x1 is the only platform that improves......

 

The biggest reason though is the GPU, and no amount of techniques, esram is going to offset that difference.

You just repeated what I just said. Your point?

You dunno what u talkin bout. Developers are forced to use the ESRAM not to get more power out of it, but to get any power out of it at all, it's not something extra that developers can't use, because they must. The Xbone has 3GB reserved for the OS, has 20 percent of GPU power reserved for Kinect and Snap functions and has 2 cores of it's cpu reserved for Kinect and Snap. So the power difference is bigger than just 1.84Tflop vs 1.3Tflop or DDR3 vs GDDR5 ram. The Xbone is even more limited due to like I said: Kinect and Snap.

Also what the fuck is this:

"nothing can replace the missing GPU units but with good utilization it can come a bit closer to the PS4s power."

And the PS4 will also get optimizations, getting it further away from the Xbone.

Why is it that you Xbox fans always assume that Xbone will have optimizations but PS4 not?

The gap is pretty big:

-original specs difference

-Xbone reserving a good chunk of it's power to non-gaming



Augen on 23 January 2014

Hope the additional time has made it a polished experience as was the big launch game I wanted.



vivster on 23 January 2014
Turkish said:
vivster said:
FlamingWeazel said:
vivster said:
Ashadian said:
vivster said:
I don't think the gap will widen. I don't even think the games will advance much beyond this point. The PS4 has a very simple and straight forward architecture. Nothing you would have to get the kinks out. The X1 has more potential to advance because of the uncomfortable and complex architecture.
I'm not saying that it will close the gap or will ever have experiences on par with PS4 but there are possibilities to make the games run better with lots of optimization.


I don't know how you have come to this conclusion? The architecture for the X1 is similar to the PS4 barring memory/ESRAM and a more powerful GPU. The gap will widen as the PS4 has the most IMPORTANT ADVANTAGE a more powerful and capable GPU. Faster Unified RAM and ease of development.

The ESRAM makes a pretty huge difference. The developers are pretty much forced to use it if they want to leverage the sparse power of the X1. If it is utilized correctly it can surpass the GDDR5 in speed. But that's very hard and time consuming. Of course nothing can replace the missing GPU units but with good utilization it can come a bit closer to the PS4s power.

On the PS4s side I see nothing to improve. I would regard this architecture as the most simple architecture for consoles ever conceived. CPU and GPU on one dice and unified extremely fast RAM for both. Sure there may be some optimizations of code and multiple core utilization but that will happen on the X1 as well.


Sigh not this again.. No the 32 mb of esram will not come close to making up the unified GDDR5 ram pool of the ps4, then there is the biggest factor...the GPU.  esram is not new, 360 had it as well  as the wii-u, it's not new for devs. There is also the point that ps4 will also improver as drivers, and dev kits and techniques improve, lets not pretend the x1 is the only platform that improves......

 

The biggest reason though is the GPU, and no amount of techniques, esram is going to offset that difference.

You just repeated what I just said. Your point?

You dunno what u talkin bout. Developers are forced to use the ESRAM not to get more power out of it, but to get any power out of it at all, it's not something extra that developers can't use, because they must. The Xbone has 3GB reserved for the OS, has 20 percent of GPU power reserved for Kinect and Snap functions and has 2 cores of it's cpu reserved for Kinect and Snap. So the power difference is bigger than just 1.84Tflop vs 1.3Tflop or DDR3 vs GDDR5 ram. The Xbone is even more limited due to like I said: Kinect and Snap.

Also what the fuck is this:

"nothing can replace the missing GPU units but with good utilization it can come a bit closer to the PS4s power."

And the PS4 will also get optimizations, getting it further away from the Xbone.

Why is it that you Xbox fans always assume that Xbone will have optimizations but PS4 not?

The gap is pretty big:

-original specs difference

-Xbone reserving a good chunk of it's power to non-gaming

I didn't want to slam it that hard but you are correct ;)



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Madword on 23 January 2014
vivster said:

The ESRAM makes a pretty huge difference. The developers are pretty much forced to use it if they want to leverage the sparse power of the X1. If it is utilized correctly it can surpass the GDDR5 in speed. But that's very hard and time consuming. Of course nothing can replace the missing GPU units but with good utilization it can come a bit closer to the PS4s power.

On the PS4s side I see nothing to improve. I would regard this architecture as the most simple architecture for consoles ever conceived. CPU and GPU on one dice and unified extremely fast RAM for both. Sure there may be some optimizations of code and multiple core utilization but that will happen on the X1 as well.

The big problem is that 32 ESRAM isnt big enough so whatever speed improvements developers get from moving the small data chunks on it is negated by the small amount of memory they have., so trying to improve it to such an extent wont overtake the PS4.. Unified 8GB GDDR5 is a much better overall prospect, especially with games having larger textures to place into memory.

As far as the PS4, where it will improve is when they start to move CPU processes onto the GPU, this will apparently improve the performance greatly in 2/3 years time, and apparently is the direction that PC dev is going in.

So unfortunately I think the gap wont close, but then again it may not widen, depends on how much more effort developers put into it. For example if your un-optimised game is already running 40 FPS you are not going to work as hard on it if the competitor has only 25 FPS. But as engines improve they will take advantage, but it takes longer, which I think it is why Cerny said it will be 2-3 years before you start to see the real advantages of the PS4 GPU.



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