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Forums - Gaming - 3DS vs Vita 3rd Party Sales and Support

Player2 on 17 January 2014
the_dengle said:
DanneSandin said:

Weeeell, if you read the first part of my OP you could actually follow my train of thought, and how I ended up doing this thread ^^ I was curious as to why 3rd parties would ever choose the Vita over the 3DS. Apparently, there is no justifiable reason.

Ehh, there's something to be said for the lack of competition on the Vita. Publishers don't have to worry about competing with the likes of Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, and first-party Nintendo games... come to think of it, they don't have to worry about competing with Sony's first-party games, either.

So that's why Sony has made Ratchet and Clank for iOS, to give third parties something to worry about if they go mobile. After all, third party games are more important for the success of Sony systems than first party games. So smart Sony, so smart...



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DanneSandin on 17 January 2014
ktay95 said:
DanneSandin said:
ktay95 said:
Never realized that despite the lack of fucks given by the western market for the Vita (mainly US) that their games have sold best. May I also point out the difference in who is publishing these 3rd party games from Japan. 3DS has SQEX, Capcom, Sega etc. vs Vitas Tecmo, Namco, NIS etc. Seems that 3DS just receives the bigger franchises which naturally will receive better sales. Lots of smaller publishers seem to be finding success on Vita though as they dont have to compete with the likes of Dragon Quest, MonHun or Nintendo's plethora of 1st party titles

That is quite an interesting observation. I wonder how those smaller publishers would do on 3DS.

I had a quick look into that, and it seems they're still doing better on 3DS; Level 5 must be considered a small publisher, yes? 0.64m. Marvelous Entertainment; 0.61m. Namco: 0.58m, times 2 actually! Namco has 2 0.58m selling games ^^ So I guess your theory didn't hold up...

what are the games these guys are publishing though?? Level 5 have big franchises, Namco are just a big publisher in general and one of few to somewhat support Vita (GE2, Tales of etc.) When I talk about small about small publishers I mean the ones who are selling 100k games and making a nice profit, theres even plenty of games making a profit of just 50k sold (physically) on Vita.

Games like this I feel would just be forgotten on 3DS

Some games that have done better on Vita, not to say theres not plenty that go the other way. Just solid proof you can do better on Vita

Time Travellers 45,891 vs 38,847

Dynasty Warriors 201,496 (113,879 Japan) vs 63,500 (Japan only)

Miku (1st game on each platform) 232,161 vs 181,679

Rayman Origins 403,047 vs 74,944

etc.

 

 

Yes, you can definitely do better on the Vita than on 3DS, but I'd argue those are the exceptions, not the rule. You'd probably still be better off publishing games on 3DS - which probably has a lower development cost as well (but I'm not sure about that at all).



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

DanneSandin on 17 January 2014
hinch said:
DanneSandin said:
hinch said:

Doesn't account for digital sales. So not really an accurate representation tbh. Never mind the large difference between the userbase of the 3DS (43m) vs PS Vita (7.4m).

Saying that, Monster Hunter > everything else.

Even if we excluded MH4, the Top 10 3rd party games on 3DS almost doubled that of the Vita. And digital sales goes both ways; Nintendo has the eShop you know. And the larger userbase should only encourage developers to make 3DS games, and ditch the Vita.

Not really. You cherry picked the best selling games on both platforms. If you look at the same multiplatform games on both platforms they actually perform a lot better on Vita. Check Rayman, Batman Origins Blackgate and other titles.

To add. Although the 3DS has a bigger userbase, 3rd party titles do better on the Vita.

@Bold: THAT I would like to see a source of. I've given you a list of the best selling 3rd party games that says otherwise. I also stated that the next 12 3rd party games sold just as well as the 10th best selling game on PSV. So that's more than 20 3rd party games that's done better, or just as good, as the top 10 best selling 3rd party Vita games.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

the_dengle on 17 January 2014
DanneSandin said:

Well, as the lists shows you, there's way more profits to be made on the 3DS, even if you have to compete with Mario. If you've read the whole OP you should be aware that 3rd parties are selling better on the 3DS than on Vita, you can't spin that.

Not trying to spin it. :P

But for some publishers, for some games, I can understand why the Vita would seem like the better choice. Though I think all of those games would benefit greatly from being multiplatform.



hinch on 17 January 2014
DanneSandin said:
hinch said:
DanneSandin said:
hinch said:

Doesn't account for digital sales. So not really an accurate representation tbh. Never mind the large difference between the userbase of the 3DS (43m) vs PS Vita (7.4m).

Saying that, Monster Hunter > everything else.

Even if we excluded MH4, the Top 10 3rd party games on 3DS almost doubled that of the Vita. And digital sales goes both ways; Nintendo has the eShop you know. And the larger userbase should only encourage developers to make 3DS games, and ditch the Vita.

Not really. You cherry picked the best selling games on both platforms. If you look at the same multiplatform games on both platforms they actually perform a lot better on Vita. Check Rayman, Batman Origins Blackgate and other titles.

To add. Although the 3DS has a bigger userbase, 3rd party titles do better on the Vita.

@Bold: THAT I would like to see a source of. I've given you a list of the best selling 3rd party games that says otherwise. I also stated that the next 12 3rd party games sold just as well as the 10th best selling game on PSV. So that's more than 20 3rd party games that's done better, or just as good, as the top 10 best selling 3rd party Vita games.

I meant as in multiplatform games, on both consoles.



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Scisca on 17 January 2014

Personally, I refuse to count a game that has Mario in the title and on the cover as 3rd party. No matter who actually made it. The game wouldn't sell jack shit if it was just Sonic.


Apart from that, I believe that Vita games actually hold their own quite nicely if you compare the install base, especially the first games. FIFA 13 is just a re-release of FIFA Football, so this influences the sales unfortunately. Also Ragnarok is digital only in Europe (the 2nd most important market), God Eater 2 is only released in Japan so far, it will get past 500k once it hits the West.
But the most important factor is that for some time now Vita games are designed with a budget that makes them profitable at these low sales. Toukiden, God Eater 2 all outperformed their expectations and surprised their publishers. Vita needs more heavy hitters, but at least the middle tier games are selling the way they should.

The thing that's a bit worrying in the case of both consoles is that almost all these games were released a long time ago, so I don't really think that 3rd parties are really fond of any of these consoles. I hope 3rd parties start selling better in 2014 on Vita. We need their help and they need our ;) 3DS is set with just 1st party games either way :P



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

DanneSandin on 17 January 2014
hinch said:
DanneSandin said:
hinch said:

Not really. You cherry picked the best selling games on both platforms. If you look at the same multiplatform games on both platforms they actually perform a lot better on Vita. Check Rayman, Batman Origins Blackgate and other titles.

To add. Although the 3DS has a bigger userbase, 3rd party titles do better on the Vita.

@Bold: THAT I would like to see a source of. I've given you a list of the best selling 3rd party games that says otherwise. I also stated that the next 12 3rd party games sold just as well as the 10th best selling game on PSV. So that's more than 20 3rd party games that's done better, or just as good, as the top 10 best selling 3rd party Vita games.

I meant as in multiplatform games, on both consoles.

You are wrong. Vita has about 4 multiplat games that's performed on Vita:

 

GAME                        3DS            VITA

Rayman Origins          0.07           0.40

FIFA 13                      0.22           0.30

FIFA 14                      0.14           0.21

Batman: Blackgate      0.10           0.19

LEGO LOTR                0.23          0.17

LEGO Marvel              0.29          0.16

Sega All-star Racing   0.20           0.15

LEGO Batman 2         0.30           0.13

LEGO Harry Potter     0.29          0.11

F1 2011                    0.12          0.09

How I came about this: I looked at the top selling Vita chart, right here at VGC, klicked on every 3rd party published game on that list, and compared the Top 10 Best selling multiplat games on the VITA with their counterparts on the 3DS. So this means, the list above are the 10 best selling multiplat on Vita, and NOT the 3ds. I couldn't be bothered making a Top 10 Best selling multiplat games on the 3DS. But still, it's quite apparent even multiplat titles sell better on 3DS, as a general rule.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

lucidium on 17 January 2014

It's simply a matter of contrast, it's all very well comparing the game sales directly, but in comparison to how many potential customers can actually buy the software, what we see is the following.

3DS
Monster Hunter 4 - 3.23 - 1 out of 13 owners bought
Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance - 1.28 - 1 out of 33 owners bought
Dragon Quest VII - 1.24 - 1 out of 34 owners bought
Puzzle & Dragons - 1.16 - 1 out of 36 owners bought
Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games - 1.07 - 1 out of 40 owners bought
Super Street Fighter IV: 3D Edition - 1.01 - 1 out of 42 owners bought
Dragon Quest Monsters: Terry's Wonderland 3D - 0.96 - 1 out of 44 owners bought
LEGO Star Wars III: The Clone Wars - 0.89 - 1 out of 48 owners bought
Sonic Generations - 0.83 - 1 out of 51 owners bought
Resident Evil: Revelations - 0.76 - 1 out of 56 owners bought
Professor Layton and the Legacy of Civilization A - 0.64 - 1 out of 66 owners bought

Variance - 1 in 13 to 1 in 66

Vita
Assassin's Creed III: Liberation - 0.89 - 1 out of 8 owners bought
Call of Duty Black Ops: Declassified - 0.87 - 1 out of 8 owners bought
Persona 4: The Golden - 0.60 - 1 out of 12 owners bought
Need for Speed: Most Wanted - A Criterion Game - 0.56 - 1 out of 13 owners bought
FIFA Soccer - 0.47 - 1 out of 16 owners bought
Mortal Kombat - 0.42 - 1 out of 17 owners bought
Rayman Origins - 0.40 - 1 out of 18 owners bought
God Eater 2 - 0.38 - 1 out of 19 owners bought
Ragnarok Odyssey - 0.32 - 1 out of 23 owners bought
FIFA Soccer 13 - 0.30 - 1 out of 24 owners bought

Variance - 1 in 8 to 1 in 24

As you can see, while sales are indeed higher across the board for 3DS, relative to actual hardware ownership, Vita owners have a much tighter grouping and a higher margin of owners buying each piece of software.

So, the question you ask is, why do third parties support the Vita?, because vita owners buy games, and comparatively, a third party title on the vita is bought at a higher ratio too.

Not in higher numbers of course, because theres an obvious and large difference in overall install bases, that said, based on the install base it has, the sales performance versus install base is very similar (actually, slightly higher) than the 3DS.

Sorry to piss on your parade.



DanneSandin on 17 January 2014
ktay95 said:

what are the games these guys are publishing though?? Level 5 have big franchises, Namco are just a big publisher in general and one of few to somewhat support Vita (GE2, Tales of etc.) When I talk about small about small publishers I mean the ones who are selling 100k games and making a nice profit, theres even plenty of games making a profit of just 50k sold (physically) on Vita.

Games like this I feel would just be forgotten on 3DS

Some games that have done better on Vita, not to say theres not plenty that go the other way. Just solid proof you can do better on Vita

Time Travellers 45,891 vs 38,847

Dynasty Warriors 201,496 (113,879 Japan) vs 63,500 (Japan only)

Miku (1st game on each platform) 232,161 vs 181,679

Rayman Origins 403,047 vs 74,944

etc.

 

 

I've made a Top 10 Best Selling Multiplat Games on VITA for you:

GAME                        3DS            VITA

Rayman Origins          0.07           0.40

FIFA 13                      0.22           0.30

FIFA 14                      0.14           0.21

Batman: Blackgate      0.10           0.19

LEGO LOTR                0.23          0.17

LEGO Marvel              0.29          0.16

Sega All-star Racing   0.20           0.15

LEGO Batman 2         0.30           0.13

LEGO Harry Potter     0.29          0.11

F1 2011                    0.12          0.09

Mind you, this is the VITA Top 10 games that's shared with the 3DS. I haven't made a similar list for the 3DS, because I can't be bothered to go through every 3rd party entry on THAT list!



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

lucidium on 17 January 2014
DanneSandin said:

You are wrong. Vita has about 4 multiplat games that's performed on Vita:

 

GAME                        3DS            VITA

Rayman Origins          0.07           0.40

FIFA 13                      0.22           0.30

FIFA 14                      0.14           0.21

Batman: Blackgate      0.10           0.19

LEGO LOTR                0.23          0.17

LEGO Marvel              0.29          0.16

Sega All-star Racing   0.20           0.15

LEGO Batman 2         0.30           0.13

LEGO Harry Potter     0.29          0.11

F1 2011                    0.12          0.09

How I came about this: I looked at the top selling Vita chart, right here at VGC, klicked on every 3rd party published game on that list, and compared the Top 10 Best selling multiplat games on the VITA with their counterparts on the 3DS. So this means, the list above are the 10 best selling multiplat on Vita, and NOT the 3ds. I couldn't be bothered making a Top 10 Best selling multiplat games on the 3DS. But still, it's quite apparent even multiplat titles sell better on 3DS, as a general rule.

Considering the massive delta in potential buyers between the Vita and 3DS, those 3DS numbers are atrocious.