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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Seriously, Nintendo is not THAT Important

Mythmaker1 said:
curl-6 said:
Mythmaker1 said:

It's fair that that's your opinion. I just get an itch when I see absolutes applied to subjective views because it basically gives them the force of fact; there's no opportunity for middle ground.

When you say "Nintendo games," do you mean that collectively, or individually?

I feel like I kinda need to put a disclaimer in my sig, that any view I express is simply my opinion and I do not claim it as fact. XD It was not my intention to express it as an objective absolute.

I mean both the average quality of their output, and the amount of all-time greats they develop.

I recognize it's not being stated as fact, but in a conversation, an absolute opinion has the force of fact. You can only consider it right or wrong, and there is no middle ground. It may not be objective, but it is no less absolute. Intransigence kills conversation. :P

I'm not demanding that you agree, and I'm open to discussing why I think so, that's grounds for a conversation. ;)



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Pristine20 said:
As long as there's money to be made, the industry will move on...end of story. Gaming i s even more relevant that it has ever been with just about every entertainment device trying to tack them on now.

And that's why THQ went down, and many publishers are not making profits. 



Nintendo and PC gamer

osed125 said:
Pristine20 said:
As long as there's money to be made, the industry will move on...end of story. Gaming i s even more relevant that it has ever been with just about every entertainment device trying to tack them on now.

And that's why THQ went down, and many publishers are not making profits. 


And what changed since THQ went down? Business models are what prevents publishers from making profits. EVen if we regress back to only 2D sidescrollers, the show will go on...that much, I can guarantee.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

Pristine20 said:
osed125 said:
Pristine20 said:
As long as there's money to be made, the industry will move on...end of story. Gaming i s even more relevant that it has ever been with just about every entertainment device trying to tack them on now.

And that's why THQ went down, and many publishers are not making profits. 


And what changed since THQ went down? Business models are what prevents publishers from making profits. EVen if we regress back to only 2D sidescrollers, the show will go on...that much, I can guarantee.

Nah, we'll either see big AAA blockbuster tittles (your GTAs, CoDs, FIFAs etc) or indie games. Middle end software will disappear or become extremely rare. Games will either have to sell 5 million units to become profitable or become failures. Publishers will take even less risks than now. 

That's how I see the future of the game industry.



Nintendo and PC gamer

I disagree, if nintendo falls then I wii skip gaming all together!



Menx64

3DS code: 1289-8222-7215

NNid: Menx064

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@OP

Okay look. You certainly have wiggle-room to argue that points 2. and 3. are true or not. Those are a bit more subjective in nature to be sure. Though honestly it's still a valid point that Nintendo DOES always tend to be the most inventive/innovative, and it's a fact that their games are almost always of the highest quality/some of the highest rated in any given year.



BUT, I'm sorry, point #1. is not arguable. Nintendo absolutely is indispensable to the industry, and if you don't understand why, then I'm afraid you don't truly understand video games. I'm not saying that to be a prick....but there's just no two ways about it. I cannot think of a single other video game company MORE indispensable than Nintendo. That is to say, I can't think of a single game company who would have MORE of a negative impact on the industry by "going away" than Nintendo would.

Yes, if Nintendo died tomorrow and not a single new Nintendo console or especially NIntendo franchise game would ever see the light of day again, other companies would try to rise up and "fill the void". But let's be real here. If NIntendo were gone, the gaming industry would quickly become a pretty boring, "me too" place. It already is that, to a large degree. And a world without new Nintendo games is honestly not one I would like to ever have to live in. And considering that MOST of the Top 50 highest selling video games of all time ARE Nintendo published titles, I tend to think a majority of gamers would probably agree.



menx64 said:
I disagree, if nintendo falls then I wii skip gaming all together!

Me too.

I might indulge in some retro collecting, but my days of being at the forefront of gaming will be over.



Mr Khan said:
Mythmaker1 said:
 

Just for reference, with regards to point 3, does history refer to sales, reception, or endurance?

I'm not as conversant with the Film industry as I'd like to be, but I'd think that Dreamworks would actually be in a pretty good position to fill in for Pixar, at least, though Disney is a much more difficult beast because they're such a far-reaching conglomerate. Their family films are actually largely overshadowed by their partnership with Marvel in recent years. I'd actually say someone like Warner Brothers would be in a good position to take over for them, given the way they've been working with DC the last decade or so.

In terms of the gaming industry, Metroid and Kirby are iconic, but not really irreplaceable. Their releases are infrequent enough and at the lower end, sales wise, that they wouldn't leave as much of a void. Mario and Zelda, however, are different, thought he latter doesn't really define its genre anymore. Zelda is an institution, but there are a lot of third-person medieval action games with puzzle elements. Its important more because of its active fanbase, rather than its actual importance as an institution (only supposing here, the precedent doesn't really exist). It would definitely affect the industry, but probably not in an immediate, business sense.

Mario is probably the only one that really sticks, but I think a lot of the way other publishers neglect the genre is because Mario has a stranglehold on it. Everyone knows you can't compete with Mario, so no one tries. Yet look at all of the indie-platforming games that have flooded the market in recent years, outside of that competition. For a couple of years, there might be a void, but I don't expect it would have serious long-term consequences. It's sort of like World of Warcraft. If WoW fell tomorrow, just about every company would leap at the chance to take its place.

As fara s things go, you're response is probably the strongest rebuttal to my argument, and I can't write it off. I don't think I really agree with it, but it's a hard nut to crack without more research on my part, I think.

I was going to put a line in about Dreamworks, but didn't want to ramble. Dreamworks has some moments of brilliance, but they are often too focused on pop-culture referencing for their works to really stand out in the long term (this is what really dragged down the Shrek series as it went on). They are derivative more often than they should be, despite the talent they obviously have.

Are there a lot of third person medieval action games with puzzle elements? Prince of Persia is more of a platformer, Okami's not coming back, Medieval, too, more of a platformer (still wish Sony would push it more). The Last Guardian, but... yeah.

What you say about Dreamworks is true, but I think it's fair to say it's becoming less and less relevant (Shrek 4 was something like 4 years ago, afterall). 

If I'm understanding you right, there isn't anything that can come around and just replace Zelda. If so, I agree, but I don't see that anything needs to. Zelda itself is such a nebulous franchise in terms of mechanics that virtually nothing has remained consistent. Which is fine, but that's more or less what I mean when I say it's more of an institution; very little of practical substance remains constant except the prominent fanbase. I mean, if Zelda games stopped being made, it would suck, but it wouldn't really change the state of the industry as a whole, only a specific niche that, like most niches, would probably find something to fill it sooner or later.



I believe in honesty, civility, generosity, practicality, and impartiality.

osed125 said:
Pristine20 said:
osed125 said:
Pristine20 said:
As long as there's money to be made, the industry will move on...end of story. Gaming i s even more relevant that it has ever been with just about every entertainment device trying to tack them on now.

And that's why THQ went down, and many publishers are not making profits. 


And what changed since THQ went down? Business models are what prevents publishers from making profits. EVen if we regress back to only 2D sidescrollers, the show will go on...that much, I can guarantee.

Nah, we'll either see big AAA blockbuster tittles (your GTAs, CoDs, FIFAs etc) or indie games. Middle end software will disappear or become extremely rare. Games will either have to sell 5 million units to become profitable or become failures. Publishers will take even less risks than now. 

That's how I see the future of the game industry.

But the show will go on, yes? If it's nintendo  you're trying to defend, they're the masters of taking no risks on software.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

DevilRising said:

@OP

Okay look. You certainly have wiggle-room to argue that points 2. and 3. are true or not. Those are a bit more subjective in nature to be sure. Though honestly it's still a valid point that Nintendo DOES always tend to be the most inventive/innovative, and it's a fact that their games are almost always of the highest quality/some of the highest rated in any given year.



BUT, I'm sorry, point #1. is not arguable. Nintendo absolutely is indispensable to the industry, and if you don't understand why, then I'm afraid you don't truly understand video games. I'm not saying that to be a prick....but there's just no two ways about it. I cannot think of a single other video game company MORE indispensable than Nintendo. That is to say, I can't think of a single game company who would have MORE of a negative impact on the industry by "going away" than Nintendo would.

Yes, if Nintendo died tomorrow and not a single new Nintendo console or especially NIntendo franchise game would ever see the light of day again, other companies would try to rise up and "fill the void". But let's be real here. If NIntendo were gone, the gaming industry would quickly become a pretty boring, "me too" place. It already is that, to a large degree. And a world without new Nintendo games is honestly not one I would like to ever have to live in. And considering that MOST of the Top 50 highest selling video games of all time ARE Nintendo published titles, I tend to think a majority of gamers would probably agree.


So your factual explanation of why ninty is indespenable is that, you wouldn't like to live in such a world? Great facts you got there.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler