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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Anonymous Dev documents Wii U experience

walsufnir on 11 January 2014
curl-6 said:
walsufnir said:
curl-6 said:

Some interesting excerpts:

"Code optimised for the PowerPC processors found in the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 wasn't always a good fit for the Wii U CPU, so while the chip has some interesting features that let the CPU punch above its weight, we couldn't fully take advantage of them. However, some code could see substantial improvements that did mitigate the lower clocks - anything up to a 4x boost owing to the removal of Load-Hit-Stores, and higher IPC (instructions per cycle) via the inclusion of out-of-order execution."

"The GPU proved very capable and we ended up adding additional "polish" features as the GPU had capacity to do it. There was even some discussion on trying to utilise the GPU via compute shaders (GPGPU) to offload work from the CPU - exactly the approach I expect to see gain traction on the next-gen consoles - but with very limited development time and no examples or guidance from Nintendo, we didn't feel that we could risk attempting this work...The GPU is better than on PS3 or Xbox 360"

"I've also seen some concerns about the utilisation of DDR3 RAM on Wii U, and a bandwidth deficit compared to the PS3 and Xbox 360. This wasn't really a problem for us. The GPU could fetch data rapidly with minimal stalls (via the EDRAM) and we could efficiently pre-fetch, allowing the GPU to run at top speed."

Sounds like exactly what I and others have been saying for over a year now; an eccentric design that isn't fully utilised by quick and nasty PS3/360 ports due to its different architecture.

We haven't what Wii U can really do, not by a long shot.


And what many others said: It's not worth it. It is ok to select only "interesting" parts but the development situation is a MESS, obviously, and Nintendo is to blame.

I'm not really interested in third party multiplatform games.

What I am interested in is the references to the Wii U chipset that support what I've been saying for over a year now.


The chipset? What is so special about it? It is better than many want to believe but there are not much mysteries left, I think.



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curl-6 on 11 January 2014
walsufnir said:

The chipset? What is so special about it? It is better than many want to believe but there are not much mysteries left, I think.

What's "special" about it, (or to me, simply "interesting") is that it's very different from 360 and PS3, so ported code is not an accurate reflection of its capability.

It's a quirky design whose potential has not been tapped yet. I find that fascinating.



peoplewhoplay on 11 January 2014

I guess they're lazy enough to mess with Wii U's PowerPC architecture



walsufnir on 11 January 2014
curl-6 said:
walsufnir said:

The chipset? What is so special about it? It is better than many want to believe but there are not much mysteries left, I think.

What's "special" about it, (or to me, simply "interesting") is that it's very different from 360 and PS3, so ported code is not an accurate reflection of its capability.

It's a quirky design whose potential has not been tapped yet. I find that fascinating.

 

So were a lot of consoles, perhaps PS3 still unrivaled. I also like stuff with potential but the question is if we ever get to see a game which maxes out the hardware which would be sad.

Regarding porting the code: Well, it's most probably the same ISA so code will run. But if it would be my code and I would have to rewrite my code to make a game run on WiiU I would also be not that happy.



PattonFiend on 11 January 2014

So you're saying you wouldn't be happy if you had to do actual work...

Hmm...



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curl-6 on 11 January 2014
walsufnir said:
curl-6 said:
walsufnir said:

The chipset? What is so special about it? It is better than many want to believe but there are not much mysteries left, I think.

What's "special" about it, (or to me, simply "interesting") is that it's very different from 360 and PS3, so ported code is not an accurate reflection of its capability.

It's a quirky design whose potential has not been tapped yet. I find that fascinating.

 

So were a lot of consoles, perhaps PS3 still unrivaled. I also like stuff with potential but the question is if we ever get to see a game which maxes out the hardware which would be sad.

Regarding porting the code: Well, it's most probably the same ISA so code will run. But if it would be my code and I would have to rewrite my code to make a game run on WiiU I would also be not that happy.

Whether it will be maxed out remains to be seen, but there are certainly promising future games that could push it farther than anything we've seen thus far: X, Project CARS, FAST Racing Neo, whatever Shin'en's other mystery game is...

Thing is, nobody has made a ground-up Wii U game with the aim of being graphically intensive yet.



walsufnir on 11 January 2014
PattonFiend said:

So you're saying you wouldn't be happy if you had to do actual work...

Hmm...


Usually you write your code, polish it, finish it, and then move on to a new project/game. If you have to port code, you have to touch it again, face new problems on new hardware in this case, face problems you wouldn't wish your worst enemy while others can have fun with new stuff. And even worse you know it will perhaps not even sell well... In this situation I wouldn't be happy, yes.



supernihilist on 11 January 2014
walsufnir said:
supernihilist said:
curl-6 said:

Some interesting excerpts:

"Code optimised for the PowerPC processors found in the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 wasn't always a good fit for the Wii U CPU, so while the chip has some interesting features that let the CPU punch above its weight, we couldn't fully take advantage of them. However, some code could see substantial improvements that did mitigate the lower clocks - anything up to a 4x boost owing to the removal of Load-Hit-Stores, and higher IPC (instructions per cycle) via the inclusion of out-of-order execution."

"The GPU proved very capable and we ended up adding additional "polish" features as the GPU had capacity to do it. There was even some discussion on trying to utilise the GPU via compute shaders (GPGPU) to offload work from the CPU - exactly the approach I expect to see gain traction on the next-gen consoles - but with very limited development time and no examples or guidance from Nintendo, we didn't feel that we could risk attempting this work...The GPU is better than on PS3 or Xbox 360"

"I've also seen some concerns about the utilisation of DDR3 RAM on Wii U, and a bandwidth deficit compared to the PS3 and Xbox 360. This wasn't really a problem for us. The GPU could fetch data rapidly with minimal stalls (via the EDRAM) and we could efficiently pre-fetch, allowing the GPU to run at top speed."

Sounds like exactly what I and others have been saying for over a year now; an eccentric design that isn't fully utilised by quick and nasty PS3/360 ports due to its different architecture.

We haven't what Wii U can really do, not by a long shot.

oh i see. so it only was a embarrasing nitpicking from ANti-nintendo crowd. embarrasing for them of course. thank you for clearing it out for me pal.


So you didn't read the article and still posted? Man, things can't get worse. And I am not Anti-Nintendo crowd. Why do you even use this term? Look at the thread title. It's not always "we" and "them"...

WTH are you talking about?

I read the OP entirely and then posted. You nitpicked the least favorable parts on purpose to fit your agenda whatever it is that i dont care a bit...

then the usual suspects came to agree with the negativity. Then a guy pointed out many positive thing the article says that somehow everybody that read the full article missed (yourself included it seems lol)...

Its pretty clear to me whats going on here.



walsufnir on 11 January 2014
curl-6 said:
walsufnir said:
curl-6 said:
walsufnir said:

The chipset? What is so special about it? It is better than many want to believe but there are not much mysteries left, I think.

What's "special" about it, (or to me, simply "interesting") is that it's very different from 360 and PS3, so ported code is not an accurate reflection of its capability.

It's a quirky design whose potential has not been tapped yet. I find that fascinating.

 

So were a lot of consoles, perhaps PS3 still unrivaled. I also like stuff with potential but the question is if we ever get to see a game which maxes out the hardware which would be sad.

Regarding porting the code: Well, it's most probably the same ISA so code will run. But if it would be my code and I would have to rewrite my code to make a game run on WiiU I would also be not that happy.

Whether it will be maxed out remains to be seen, but there are certainly promising future games that could push it farther than anything we've seen thus far: X, Project CARS, FAST Racing Neo, whatever Shin'en's other mystery game is...

Thing is, nobody has made a ground-up Wii U game with the aim of being graphically intensive yet.

 

Exactly, and I doubt we will see it from Nintendo, so this leaves not much left, sadly.

Btw, just realized a few weeks ago that Shin'en is in fact a German team... And iirc they have origins in the demoscene which would explain a lot.



Porcupine_I on 11 January 2014
walsufnir said:
PattonFiend said:

So you're saying you wouldn't be happy if you had to do actual work...

Hmm...


Usually you write your code, polish it, finish it, and then move on to a new project/game. If you have to port code, you have to touch it again, face new problems on new hardware in this case, face problems you wouldn't wish your worst enemy while others can have fun with new stuff. And even worse you know it will perhaps not even sell well... In this situation I wouldn't be happy, yes.

I may not be a programmer, but let me assure you i completely understand what you mean regarding the additional effort in work alread done before, especially if it will likely result in little to no return.



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’