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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Anonymous Dev documents Wii U experience

Scoobes on 12 January 2014
supernihilist said:
Hynad said:

LOL! So? That doesn't change anything. It's still Nintendo that provided the devs with those half assed  tools. xD

There's a history of Nintendo not giving devs good tools, or providing them with poor documentation and overall support. That's the point. Things haven't changed. You don't need to be a hater to see and accept this fact. -__-


Which law of god forces Nintendo to help every 3rd party that develops for their HW? besides Nintendo cant do that they are too small.

+ its their bussiness not Nintendos. If 3rd parties want glory and fame it will require a glorious effort. (See Factor 5)

Funnily enough, there is no law. However, it's in Nintendo's best interest to provide good dev tools for their console. More dev tools makes it easier and more importantly, cheaper to develop for their console. This means more devs create games on their platform, which means more sales and more licensing revenue.

@ bolded

Nintendo aren't too small. They have very rarely had an unprofitable year and it is their choice of what to invest in. If they really wanted to, they could easily invest into creating the appropriate console dev tools and getting them comparable to industry standards if not better.




Get your Portable ID!

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bonzobanana on 12 January 2014

I'm sure wii u development tools have matured now but we are still seeing weak ports of 360 and PS3 games being released. When the ps2, gamecube and original xbox had the same games each was optimised for that particular format despite massive hardware differences. Most developers are doing the best they can with the wii u but unfortunately that is still quite a low level of performance for a console released in lat 2012. We know the wii u cpu is of the same architecture as wii just faster and 3 of them and we know its using a older Radeon design that is still superior than 360 at least in its feature set.

We had all the same debates back in wii time with many claiming there was untapped power in the wii until the evidence came out that it was a gamecube with a 50% clock increase and extra memory bolted on.

The xbox 360 has a triple core powerpc processor running at 3.2ghz and with 2 thread per core. That's 6 processes at 3.2ghz compared to 3 processes at 1.25ghz. Even if the wii u cpu has better architecture that is one huge difference in speed and processes. I'm not surprised the developer said memory bandwidth wasn't an issue for wii u because you first need a processor that would use bandwidth. Clearly the wii u cpu is not going to be too demanding of it. It would be nice to know what gflops level the wii u gpu performs at. I still think its at the lower end 176 gflops not the 352gflops maximum it could be.

It just seems as time goes by that we are lowering our expectations of the wii u performance level. We see new games being released that still under perform and more snippets of information come out about its specification. I wonder if we have reached bottom yet. I fully expect the 176gflops gpu performance level to be confirmed at some point although I'm more than happy to be wrong as I am a wii u owner myself.

Ultimately you just have to look at how the wii u is performing. It's rubbish for 360/PS3 ports but games designed for it that use cartoon graphics and have little cpu demands are very nice looking. It seems to be a console purposely designed to run Nintendo games well and not much else.



supernihilist on 12 January 2014
bonzobanana said:
I'm sure wii u development tools have matured now but we are still seeing weak ports of 360 and PS3 games being released. When the ps2, gamecube and original xbox had the same games each was optimised for that particular format despite massive hardware differences. Most developers are doing the best they can with the wii u but unfortunately that is still quite a low level of performance for a console released in lat 2012. We know the wii u cpu is of the same architecture as wii just faster and 3 of them and we know its using a older Radeon design that is still superior than 360 at least in its feature set.

We had all the same debates back in wii time with many claiming there was untapped power in the wii until the evidence came out that it was a gamecube with a 50% clock increase and extra memory bolted on.

The xbox 360 has a triple core powerpc processor running at 3.2ghz and with 2 thread per core. That's 6 processes at 3.2ghz compared to 3 processes at 1.25ghz. Even if the wii u cpu has better architecture that is one huge difference in speed and processes. I'm not surprised the developer said memory bandwidth wasn't an issue for wii u because you first need a processor that would use bandwidth. Clearly the wii u cpu is not going to be too demanding of it. It would be nice to know what gflops level the wii u gpu performs at. I still think its at the lower end 176 gflops not the 352gflops maximum it could be.

It just seems as time goes by that we are lowering our expectations of the wii u performance level. We see new games being released that still under perform and more snippets of information come out about its specification. I wonder if we have reached bottom yet. I fully expect the 176gflops gpu performance level to be confirmed at some point although I'm more than happy to be wrong as I am a wii u owner myself.

Ultimately you just have to look at how the wii u is performing. It's rubbish for 360/PS3 ports but games designed for it that use cartoon graphics and have little cpu demands are very nice looking. It seems to be a console purposely designed to run Nintendo games well and not much else.

What a load of BS. You nitpick the facts that serve your agenda like lower clocks, less bandwith lower Gflops on GPU performance... and you ignore the multiple benefits of the WiiU architecture and components.

-32 Mb of eDram, Out of order CPU, full 1gb RAM for games, DSP chip for audio , Secondary ARM processor for secondary tasks...



drake4 on 12 January 2014
bonzobanana said:
I'm sure wii u development tools have matured now but we are still seeing weak ports of 360 and PS3 games being released. When the ps2, gamecube and original xbox had the same games each was optimised for that particular format despite massive hardware differences. Most developers are doing the best they can with the wii u but unfortunately that is still quite a low level of performance for a console released in lat 2012. We know the wii u cpu is of the same architecture as wii just faster and 3 of them and we know its using a older Radeon design that is still superior than 360 at least in its feature set.

We had all the same debates back in wii time with many claiming there was untapped power in the wii until the evidence came out that it was a gamecube with a 50% clock increase and extra memory bolted on.

The xbox 360 has a triple core powerpc processor running at 3.2ghz and with 2 thread per core. That's 6 processes at 3.2ghz compared to 3 processes at 1.25ghz. Even if the wii u cpu has better architecture that is one huge difference in speed and processes. I'm not surprised the developer said memory bandwidth wasn't an issue for wii u because you first need a processor that would use bandwidth. Clearly the wii u cpu is not going to be too demanding of it. It would be nice to know what gflops level the wii u gpu performs at. I still think its at the lower end 176 gflops not the 352gflops maximum it could be.

It just seems as time goes by that we are lowering our expectations of the wii u performance level. We see new games being released that still under perform and more snippets of information come out about its specification. I wonder if we have reached bottom yet. I fully expect the 176gflops gpu performance level to be confirmed at some point although I'm more than happy to be wrong as I am a wii u owner myself.

Ultimately you just have to look at how the wii u is performing. It's rubbish for 360/PS3 ports but games designed for it that use cartoon graphics and have little cpu demands are very nice looking. It seems to be a console purposely designed to run Nintendo games well and not much else.

it has been confirmed by neogaf, the project cars devs and 2   anonymous developers.



snyps on 12 January 2014
drake4 said:
snyps said:
drake4 said:

honestly this thread is pointless, even with good tools and help from nintendo it wouldn't make a difference, because of the hardware nintendo chose, even in this developer documentary, the developer make it clear the wiiu cannot run nextgen games cause of the wiiu hardware power difference, then you have a list of developers telling us wiiu hardware is not as powerful as current gen or it's only slightly more powerful or it is more power powerful so we don't know who to blame cause everybody has there own opinion on the hardware, you can see clealry see in this link http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=175934&page=1# the only huge mistake nintendo did was focusing on making the console very green and small instead of making it more powerful, more powerful hardware would run 360/ps3 ports with no effort, even with crappy tools.


the tools have probably improved by now don't you think.  so you're right in what matter to you n the others.  What matter to me is this touchscreen i'm typing on from my bed while ac 4 is paused after i barely woke up.  The Nintendo Wii U  GamePad. it's worth every bit.

you can do the samething with a laptop and a hdmi cable with, sure it might not be exact same experiance but very close imo.

lol



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snyps on 12 January 2014

"As a team, we lost days of time to the compile/link/debug overheads and this negatively impacted the amount of features that we could put into our game before the release date."



curl-6 on 12 January 2014
bonzobanana said:
I'm sure wii u development tools have matured now but we are still seeing weak ports of 360 and PS3 games being released. When the ps2, gamecube and original xbox had the same games each was optimised for that particular format despite massive hardware differences. Most developers are doing the best they can with the wii u but unfortunately that is still quite a low level of performance for a console released in lat 2012. We know the wii u cpu is of the same architecture as wii just faster and 3 of them and we know its using a older Radeon design that is still superior than 360 at least in its feature set.

We had all the same debates back in wii time with many claiming there was untapped power in the wii until the evidence came out that it was a gamecube with a 50% clock increase and extra memory bolted on.

The xbox 360 has a triple core powerpc processor running at 3.2ghz and with 2 thread per core. That's 6 processes at 3.2ghz compared to 3 processes at 1.25ghz. Even if the wii u cpu has better architecture that is one huge difference in speed and processes. I'm not surprised the developer said memory bandwidth wasn't an issue for wii u because you first need a processor that would use bandwidth. Clearly the wii u cpu is not going to be too demanding of it. It would be nice to know what gflops level the wii u gpu performs at. I still think its at the lower end 176 gflops not the 352gflops maximum it could be.

It just seems as time goes by that we are lowering our expectations of the wii u performance level. We see new games being released that still under perform and more snippets of information come out about its specification. I wonder if we have reached bottom yet. I fully expect the 176gflops gpu performance level to be confirmed at some point although I'm more than happy to be wrong as I am a wii u owner myself.

Ultimately you just have to look at how the wii u is performing. It's rubbish for 360/PS3 ports but games designed for it that use cartoon graphics and have little cpu demands are very nice looking. It seems to be a console purposely designed to run Nintendo games well and not much else.

1) But with 12 times as much L2 cache. That makes a considerable difference.

2) Claims of the Wii having untapped power that wasn't apparent at launch were proven correct later in its lifespan, by games like Conduit 1 & 2, Metroid Other M, and Jett Rocket.



Scoobes on 13 January 2014
curl-6 said:

 

2) Claims of the Wii having untapped power that wasn't apparent at launch were proven correct later in its lifespan, by games like Conduit 1 & 2, Metroid Other M, and Jett Rocket.

The problem with this was that by the time they actually came out, they were still barely matching the visuals of PS3/360 launch titles. Even if WiiU has this potential (which I don't doubt it has), I'm not sure how many people will actually care.




Get your Portable ID!

curl-6 on 13 January 2014
Scoobes said:
curl-6 said:

2) Claims of the Wii having untapped power that wasn't apparent at launch were proven correct later in its lifespan, by games like Conduit 1 & 2, Metroid Other M, and Jett Rocket.

The problem with this was that by the time they actually came out, they were still barely matching the visuals of PS3/360 launch titles. Even if WiiU has this potential (which I don't doubt it has), I'm not sure how many people will actually care.

People certainly cared with The Conduit. All I'm saying is, the "untapped power" claims were true with Wii, and will also be true for Wii U.