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Forums - Gaming - Kaz Hirai: PS4 is a “True Object of Sensation;” Setting a “New Standard in Gaming”

DonFerrari said:

What is happening in your mind is that you think you have it all figured out and it is the universal truth... unless you think Sony was lying when they said PS3/PS2/PS1 games only.


Well I'll put it this way...

Sony will move PS4 games to PSNow. It's not a matter of "if", but "when".

Either that, or they'll be seen issuing another apology to shareholders as to why they let their competitors get a foothold in an emerging market, while they were intent on keeping their games on a hardware platform (once again, short-signtedness. Be thankful you're not running your favourite company into the ground by working for them). Steam is headed in this direction, Microsoft is absolutely more than likely incorporating similar services in their Azure platform (ie. the platform that's able to already run Windows apps across web platforms, including non-Windows OSes, but I guess you thought that will "never happen"too, huh?)

Having worked in the software development industry for 15 years now, I'm more confident of where business is not only heading, but intends to head with software solutions in the near future. It's required in our area to keep up with those kinds of things, in order to keep development knowledge relevant. The thought that my mind was going to be changed by someone on a random forum on the premise of "Sony said they wouldn't" is laughable to say the very least...



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fordy said:
DonFerrari said:

What is happening in your mind is that you think you have it all figured out and it is the universal truth... unless you think Sony was lying when they said PS3/PS2/PS1 games only.


Well I'll put it this way...

Sony will move PS4 games to PSNow. It's not a matter of "if", but "when".

Either that, or they'll be seen issuing another apology to shareholders as to why they let their competitors get a foothold in an emerging market, while they were intent on keeping their games on a hardware platform (once again, short-signtedness. Be thankful you're not running your favourite company into the ground by working for them). Steam is headed in this direction, Microsoft is absolutely more than likely incorporating similar services in their Azure platform (ie. the platform that's able to already run Windows apps across web platforms, including non-Windows OSes, but I guess you thought that will "never happen"too, huh?)

Having worked in the software development industry for 15 years now, I'm more confident of where business is not only heading, but intends to head with software solutions in the near future. It's required in our area to keep up with those kinds of things, in order to keep development knowledge relevant. The thought that my mind was going to be changed by someone on a random forum on the premise of "Sony said they wouldn't" is laughable to say the very least...

So we should be thankfull for your enlighted vision as dev? Maybe you were the head of THQ?

You seem to forget that even before Xbox original MS always had their studio releasing games on Windows Platform, so your logic doesn't connect... but let you be happy... maybe in 5 years, 1 month earlier than PS5 releases, PS4 games get streamed and you can say you won because it got streamed before PS5... as you said its a matter of "when" and like that if it happens in 10 years you can still be right, if it never happens you can say "wait a little longer".



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

the-pi-guy said:
fordy said:

It's a given: remove costly parts of the business to reinvest in the more profitable ones. Business 101...

You're not seriously trying to argue this, are you?

And what do you mean "all of that happening on your mind"? Are you trying to dispute that countries are NOT moving closer to FttX technologies??

Sony obviously has no business acumen.  

You would be replacing costly parts with other costly parts.  You'd replace shipping costs/retailer cut with server costs/internet costs.  You'd still need people to get the service up and running.  It would be ridiculously expensive for Sony to set up such a thing, consider literally millions of components that would be replaced all to go after a portion of the market that is substantially smaller.  It's definitely something that they could and perhaps should do at some point, but not at any time soon.  They could get big money off the PS4, they get a small amount from every copy of a game sold.  The way they're going with it is really the best choice.  Open up PS4 streaming when PS5 comes out.  When not only will internet be better, but also the PS4 parts will be substantially cheaper and more reliable.  

Internet speeds are still very low, and most people would not be able to play.  Also, there would be a lot of people distrusting the service, they could shut it down.  Or what happens if it gets hacked and they have to take it down, all your games would be unavailable for play.  A lot of people would hate that and would rather buy physical.  Consider the fact that a lot of people would still rather buy physical than digital, you think they'd rather get something for streaming over digital or physical.  Even though streaming comes with many of the same drawbacks as digital and has a few more.  

Consider what would happen if they took down your favorite game in 10 years because only 5000 people play it so they can better support a game that has 15000 people playing.  How would you feel about that?  


Like all business practise, server farming would be outsourced, especially on peak demand like holidays or new title releases. Outsourced cloud processing is already insanely cheap for what it can do, and is only heading further down in price..

Offering a system to developers that would be more secure to piracy and cheating, as well as making multiplayer games substantially much easier to develop by removing the client-tier communication needed on current systems, would, in my opinion, persuade them to not only go with such a platform, but be prepared to pay more in publishing costs for such a benefit. Sony has ALWAYS been about the 3rd parties, remember...

Your argument about low internet speeds do not constitute as belitting any part of my reasoning. Once again, if it works for streaming PS3, why wouldn't it work for PS4? Both use a similar input method and both output the same resolution. The only difference would be the server-side (which would be much easier to perform if virtualising native x86/x64, as opposed to Cell emulation).

I urge you not to look at Sony themselves as an example of how servers are properly maintained. Besides, outsourced server farms take the problem from the platform provider together (unless of course it's a problem with their own software).

Yes, I know that many people would hate to buy digital, and I think that unless society changes, we'll only lose that battle. Why? Look at the insane measures currently being undertaken to FURTHER extend patent/copyrights past their useful period (way past when the original creators have passed on). It's always been about the supplier vs. the consumer, and digital distribution will be yet another battle. I myself was heavily against Steam when it came out, and unfortunately I've since cracked for the sake of convenience and cheap games. You watch what happens as soon as a flagship title comes out as "exclusive to cloud platform"...

As for old, obsolete games, I don't see that happening, as storage costs aren't really a concern (especially if you're only dealing with 1 copy of each game).



Slimebeast said:
Just meaningless hyperbole PR speak. I don't see anything innovative or a sensation or new standard or anything like that with PS4. Not that it has to. It's a solid gaming system and exactly what core gamers want, but stop this hype nonsense talk.


This!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29CicBxZuw

01001011 01101001 01110011 01110011 00100000 01101101 01111001 00100000 01110011 01101000 01101001 01101110 01111001 00100000 01101101 01100101 01110100 01100001 01101100 00100000 01100001 01110011 01110011 00100001

DonFerrari said:
fordy said:
DonFerrari said:

What is happening in your mind is that you think you have it all figured out and it is the universal truth... unless you think Sony was lying when they said PS3/PS2/PS1 games only.


Well I'll put it this way...

Sony will move PS4 games to PSNow. It's not a matter of "if", but "when".

Either that, or they'll be seen issuing another apology to shareholders as to why they let their competitors get a foothold in an emerging market, while they were intent on keeping their games on a hardware platform (once again, short-signtedness. Be thankful you're not running your favourite company into the ground by working for them). Steam is headed in this direction, Microsoft is absolutely more than likely incorporating similar services in their Azure platform (ie. the platform that's able to already run Windows apps across web platforms, including non-Windows OSes, but I guess you thought that will "never happen"too, huh?)

Having worked in the software development industry for 15 years now, I'm more confident of where business is not only heading, but intends to head with software solutions in the near future. It's required in our area to keep up with those kinds of things, in order to keep development knowledge relevant. The thought that my mind was going to be changed by someone on a random forum on the premise of "Sony said they wouldn't" is laughable to say the very least...

So we should be thankfull for your enlighted vision as dev? Maybe you were the head of THQ?

You seem to forget that even before Xbox original MS always had their studio releasing games on Windows Platform, so your logic doesn't connect... but let you be happy... maybe in 5 years, 1 month earlier than PS5 releases, PS4 games get streamed and you can say you won because it got streamed before PS5... as you said its a matter of "when" and like that if it happens in 10 years you can still be right, if it never happens you can say "wait a little longer".

I never realised that THQ attempted a cloud-based solution...I'm sure that's why they went broke, huh?

You really have zero idea of the game industry, don't you? Yes, Microsoft had internal studios designing games for Windows, and yes it was profitable. So....where was the income from 3rd parties? I'll give you a hint.....THERE WAS NONE! Microsoft don't have the exclusive on who can develop for Windows. Here's a newsflash: DirectX is not only free, but can be incorporated across many development platforms. This was in response to the growing concern of Linux eating into their OS business.

This is WHY the Xbox was created. Microsoft saw the business model that Nintendo had and Sony had, and wanted a piece of the pie from 3rd parties. It's EXACTLY the same reason why Nintendo or Sony don't develop on the PC, which you already brought up, so please stop trying to flog a dead horse, already...

Here's a shocker for you: who has announced a PS5? Show me the press release about a PS5 being announced, and I'll concede that the PS4 will have no issue remaining relevant through the transition to cloud based gaming. What was that? There is none? Well how about that...I guess you just ASSUMED that Sony would do the same thing they always have been, in a rapidly changing environment. I'm sorry, I thought your argument made sense for a split second...



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I see you crave Tokyo frankfurter...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29CicBxZuw

01001011 01101001 01110011 01110011 00100000 01101101 01111001 00100000 01110011 01101000 01101001 01101110 01111001 00100000 01101101 01100101 01110100 01100001 01101100 00100000 01100001 01110011 01110011 00100001

pezus said:
fordy said:
pezus said:

Of course. I'm waiting for the sales to drop below 50k weekly. It will be in 3rd place weekly soon enough.


You missed the point I made that it would not only affect Sony...

Sure did. Sub 50k for all, then? Except Nintendo

It would depend on the hardware. Obviously, if things turn to streaming, you'd only need enough to transmit the controls and receive the output, so the cheaper devices are more likely to garner attention (provided that people don't just opt for a cheap Steam Machine, or a PC/HTPC)

Of course, Sony are treading on thin ice here. They need to somehow break the news at some point that, if cloud gaming becomes the norm, that a Vita TV or an Ouya could do the same job as a PS4.This is why I'm guessing they've only announced compatibility for the time being...



I'd honestly consider the PS4 the most conventional and least innovative console of the three... However this isn't actually a bad thing.



Current gaming platforms - Switch, PlayStation 4, Xbox One, Wii U, New 3DS, PC

fordy said:
DonFerrari said:
fordy said:
DonFerrari said:

What is happening in your mind is that you think you have it all figured out and it is the universal truth... unless you think Sony was lying when they said PS3/PS2/PS1 games only.


Well I'll put it this way...

Sony will move PS4 games to PSNow. It's not a matter of "if", but "when".

Either that, or they'll be seen issuing another apology to shareholders as to why they let their competitors get a foothold in an emerging market, while they were intent on keeping their games on a hardware platform (once again, short-signtedness. Be thankful you're not running your favourite company into the ground by working for them). Steam is headed in this direction, Microsoft is absolutely more than likely incorporating similar services in their Azure platform (ie. the platform that's able to already run Windows apps across web platforms, including non-Windows OSes, but I guess you thought that will "never happen"too, huh?)

Having worked in the software development industry for 15 years now, I'm more confident of where business is not only heading, but intends to head with software solutions in the near future. It's required in our area to keep up with those kinds of things, in order to keep development knowledge relevant. The thought that my mind was going to be changed by someone on a random forum on the premise of "Sony said they wouldn't" is laughable to say the very least...

So we should be thankfull for your enlighted vision as dev? Maybe you were the head of THQ?

You seem to forget that even before Xbox original MS always had their studio releasing games on Windows Platform, so your logic doesn't connect... but let you be happy... maybe in 5 years, 1 month earlier than PS5 releases, PS4 games get streamed and you can say you won because it got streamed before PS5... as you said its a matter of "when" and like that if it happens in 10 years you can still be right, if it never happens you can say "wait a little longer".

I never realised that THQ attempted a cloud-based solution...I'm sure that's why they went broke, huh?

You really have zero idea of the game industry, don't you? Yes, Microsoft had internal studios designing games for Windows, and yes it was profitable. So....where was the income from 3rd parties? I'll give you a hint.....THERE WAS NONE! Microsoft don't have the exclusive on who can develop for Windows. Here's a newsflash: DirectX is not only free, but can be incorporated across many development platforms. This was in response to the growing concern of Linux eating into their OS business.

This is WHY the Xbox was created. Microsoft saw the business model that Nintendo had and Sony had, and wanted a piece of the pie from 3rd parties. It's EXACTLY the same reason why Nintendo or Sony don't develop on the PC, which you already brought up, so please stop trying to flog a dead horse, already...

Here's a shocker for you: who has announced a PS5? Show me the press release about a PS5 being announced, and I'll concede that the PS4 will have no issue remaining relevant through the transition to cloud based gaming. What was that? There is none? Well how about that...I guess you just ASSUMED that Sony would do the same thing they always have been, in a rapidly changing environment. I'm sorry, I thought your argument made sense for a split second...

So cloud would have saved THQ? I brought them to say that just because you supposely are a dev you don't necessarily knows how to run a bussiness. If you do, may I know from which developer you are CEO or CFO?

Microsoft entered console bussiness because Sony didn't bend to them asking to be partners on PS (doing their OS). And Sony had developed to PC and stopped.

About being on the cloud making it more available... that would support 1st party (that Sony doesn't get as much sales as 3rd parties)... why would 3rd parties pay royalties for Sony to be on the cloud if that could even mean the same as being on a free platform cloud??? If as you say it becomes standard and cheap any publisher will be able to set their games to run on the cloud using a set of hw specifications.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

So cloud would have saved THQ? I brought them to say that just because you supposely are a dev you don't necessarily knows how to run a bussiness. If you do, may I know from which developer you are CEO or CFO?

Microsoft entered console bussiness because Sony didn't bend to them asking to be partners on PS (doing their OS). And Sony had developed to PC and stopped.

About being on the cloud making it more available... that would support 1st party (that Sony doesn't get as much sales as 3rd parties)... why would 3rd parties pay royalties for Sony to be on the cloud if that could even mean the same as being on a free platform cloud??? If as you say it becomes standard and cheap any publisher will be able to set their games to run on the cloud using a set of hw specifications.

I don't know, would it? You're the one that brought it up, and unless you were trolling, I'd suggest you stick to the topic. You don't need to be a CEO to see growing trends in the industry. Those ideas DO require development time to implement. Of course, that's where it would have started, but we're WAY past that point now, in case you haven't noticed. Then again, you're the one with the crazy idea of Sony being able to snap their fingers and presto, instant service. The real world doesn't work that way, sorry...

I've heard some real jokes in the past, but this one is right up there with the best of them. Sure, okay. Microsoft, who had a monopoly on the consumer operating system market literally BEGGED Sony to make the OS for their console, which, at the time, couldn't constitute for a real OS, as most games at that time still required direct interface to the hardware. Do you actually stop to think what you're writing? Once again, Business 101. Microsoft already had most of the resources needed to enter the videogame market. Businesses DO tend to migrate across relevant markets, you know. They don't work out of spite; that makes absolutely zero business sense whatsoever. Home consoles were 1. An overlapping market which Microsoft was already dabbling with (see HTPC), and 2. A market which could reap huge profits with minimal investment on Microsoft's part (in terms of manufacturing/software development). Again, notable businesses do NOT work out of spite.

You seem to think there's nothing in between raw cloud storage and the consumer interface. What about digital distribution systems? What about established userbase? What about payment structures? Do you think the average development studio wants to deal with these? If your argument was logically sound, then Steam would not exist, Origin would not exist, etc. because those alleged studios would just arrange their own cloud storage, right? Outsourcing......Once again, Business 101.