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Forums - Gaming - EDIT: Forza is still the king of 7th gen racing! (according to Metacritic)

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Winning a lot of Oscars doesn't automactially make a movie great once in a while the academy goes with what is popular instead of what is great.  Also a lot of times what is really great doesn't get even nominated a recent example was the song "Ancora Qui" from Django Unchained it didn't even get nominated and is miles better then the song that won Skyline which is not even one of the five best Bond songs both the academy and golden globes got it wrong they just went with what is more popular.  Also as far as crittical acclaim goes Titanic didn't really get a lot that either its 74/100 on metascore and besides being #9 on Roger Ebert top ten list I doubt it made many other critics top ten list of that year it sure doesn't appear on Gene Siskel's top ten of that year.



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Chris Hu said:

Winning a lot of Oscars doesn't automactially make a movie great once in a while the academy goes with what is popular instead of what is great.  Also a lot of times what is really great doesn't get even nominated a recent example was the song "Ancora Qui" from Django Unchained it didn't even get nominated and is miles better then the song that won Skyline which is not even one of the five best Bond songs both the academy and golden globes got it wrong they just went with what is more popular.  Also as far as crittical acclaim goes Titanic didn't really get a lot that either its 74/100 on metascore and besides being #9 on Roger Ebert top ten list I doubt it made many other critics top ten list of that year it sure doesn't appear on Gene Siskel's top ten of that year.


There are many top 100 lists it does make...point?? The oscars are the most pristigous awards and it cleaned up. You doubt it made many others??? That's not even ar argument. Hate to break it to you..it did. The biggest critic of our time has it at #9.

 

I don't think you know what an ambitious, massive project that movie was. It took years, he had to fund half the movie with his own money. it had great performances  (Kate winslet rules), amazing costume direction, camera work, special effects and a story that hit a cord with viewers... Who are you to decide whats great and what isn't? By all standards Titanic can easily be considered great. MASSIVe critical and commercial acclaim. Winning the biggest acclaim the industry can give sure is critical accclaim.



Chris Hu said:

There is no magic formula that defines what makes a great movie or game.  That being said Titanic or Avatar will never be considered great.  Also with games most of them don't age well so what is considerd great now might not be so in the near future.  With movies its a different story Django Unchained is a great movie now a will be so in the future also.  As a matter of fact over time its greatness will probably increase.  My original point still stands enjoying something doesn't make it great.  I enjoy Kung Pow! Enter the Fist I would rate it 7/10 which is miles higher then its 14/100 metascore but even though I enjoy it I wouldn't consider it a great movie.  There are plenty of people that enjoy things that are really only mediocre or even bad that doesn't make something great.


I think youre miss-understanding my overall point of target audiences.

The audience for Kung Pow, as great as the film actually is, is totally different to the audience for Enter the Dragon. Even then, KP actually made a profit and maintains its cult following to this day. Its a good film and reaaaally enjoyable if youre wanting a spoof martial arts comedy.

Take Call of Duty for example. To me and you, these games may simply be rubbish Yearly cash ins. To 10s of Million of people these games are the best of the bunch. Activision know the audience they want and Activision get that audience.

Obviously sales isnt the only factor we can use to judge quality... That would be silly to have only one way... But I think its the most important factor.



                            

Sales is actually only an important factor for the people that actually make a product.  Buying something puerly because it salesa lot is actually one of the worst things you can do and again sales don't equal quality Budweiser is the best selling beer brand in the world but is actually one of the worst beers you can buy.  Also Kung Pow actually didn't make money at the box office it had a budget of $10 million and made $16.9 million world wide well short of twice the amount of  the budget you need to earn to be even somewhat profitable or break even.



Chris Hu said:

Sales is actually only an important factor for the people that actually make a product.  Buying something puerly because it salesa lot is actually one of the worst things you can do and again sales don't equal quality Budweiser is the best selling beer brand in the world but is actually one of the worst beers you can buy.  Also Kung Pow actually didn't make money at the box office it had a budget of $10 million and made $16.9 million world wide well short of twice the amount of  the budget you need to earn to be even somewhat profitable or break even.


Correct me if Im wrong, but if it cost $10 Million and made $16.9 Million wouldnt that be a profit of $6.9 Million at the box office?

I dont know much at all about the movie industry.



                            

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Carl2291 said:
Wright said:

How could you not know who Kafka was?!

What you're proving here is that sales might be a factor that points out to the quality of the game, but it is not the necessary factor for it. I never argued against this, I merely said that sales =/= quality; just like score =/= quality. Besides, the Souls example isn't that good, since Dark went multiplatform. Are you telling me Gran Turismo wouldn't sell even more if it went multiplatform?


Youre not getting the Souls game example. Obviously going multiplat opened the game up to more people over the long run. Im talking about the opening/total sales of Demon's Souls to the opening of Dark Souls.

Demon's Souls sold 39,000 units Week 1 and less than 100k in Japan in 10 Weeks. Nobody thought it was a real success because it simply didnt sell a lot. The game went on to sell 345,000 units and became a hit due to the legs. These legs came from brilliant word of mouth and Dark Souls opened up to fantastic numbers there, outselling Demon's Souls on PS3 within a Month and going on to sell over 500,000 units.

Demon's Souls released in America a few Months after JP to a modest 50,000 units. It dropped quite heavily the week after and after that maintaned a steady 10-15k for the next 8 Weeks in the Holiday season. In 2009 the game sold 213,000 units. In 2010 the game sold 250,000 units. In 2011, the Year that Dark Souls was released, the game sold 265,000 units. The game had fantastic legs based on word of mouth because it was such a great game.

Dark Souls sold 266,000 copies in 10 Weeks in the USA on PS3 alone. Add in the 360 sales and the game sold 440,000 units in 10 Weeks in the USA. A huge increase in sales and more importantly for Bamco, profits.

Demon's Souls released in Europe quite a while later, mainly due to people begging for the damn thing to be released. As this was Europe the game didnt do as well as in the Stated and in Japan, though the game did eventually sell 250,000 units here after opening up to a relatively low 30,000 units.

Dark Souls, sales combined, sold 215,000 units in 10 Weeks. 

Legs on the original followed by a great opening on the next game.

When a videogame sells incredibly well after a modest opening, its a damn good game for the target audience despite what any "pro" reviews say (even though Demon's Souls was reviewed well). Word of mouth has sold the title. The target audience needs to be taken into account. Its what counts when you talk about sales and quality. The consumer isnt as stupid as the "pro" reviewer thinks and the "pro" reviewers in this industry are in large no more reliable than or no better than me or you. ethomaz or selnor. Pezus or JayWood. 

Sales perfomance is the biggest and most important factor when determining what is and isnt a quality title/product. Not a review score. Certainly not a bunch of review scores put together on a website. You just dont compare everything to the sales of Mario, Call of Duty or GTA. You compare it to things it competes against. You compare it to other stuff in the genre/sub-genre. You compare it to titles in the same series.


Holy crap. I'm not going to argue against this

There might be the truth from your words, though, I keep saying that sales alone can't be that much of a quality factor. Look at a Puppeteer. Surely this can feels like I am nitpicking, but yeah.

 

Also, you explained better the Demon's Souls example this time ;)



The studios only get about 50% of the total box office even less in some countries like in China where they only get 30%.  Plus as far a I know the percentage can change depending on how long the movie has been released.



For me the best racing games in the 7th generation was Burnout Paradise and Blur.

I just hate realistic racing games. They are so boring! (This is to GT, Forza, GRID and any other racing simulator games)



Xbox Series, PS5 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch 2 will outsell the PS5 by 2030

Wright said:

Holy crap. I'm not going to argue against this

There might be the truth from your words, though, I keep saying that sales alone can't be that much of a quality factor. Look at a Puppeteer. Surely this can feels like I am nitpicking, but yeah.

Also, you explained better the Demon's Souls example this time ;)


Well like I said, sales performance isnt the only factor... I just think its the main and most important factor. Obviously it wont work for all games as a lot of games are indeed niche titles.

Puppeteer suffers from being a niche 2D platformer with a unique art style right at the end of the generation. Its not easily marketable and honestly, the title itself simply doesnt have a lot of appeal. 2D platformers simply arent all that popular on the PS3 outside of LBP.

That said - The game hasnt finished selling and anything over 100k should honestly be looked at as a success for this title. Should have been a downloadable.



                            

the2real4mafol said:
For me the best racing games in the 7th generation was Burnout Paradise and Blur.

I just hate realistic racing games. They are so boring! (This is to GT, Forza, GRID and any other racing simulator games)


well that is your opinion which you are entitled to and no one can tell you otherwise, BP is also one of my favorite racing games (mainly for free burn online and stunt runs), i enjoy racing sims so for me forza, GT, grid? ( grid is more arcade than sim), my all time favorite though is TDU, just a shame atari/microsoft shut the servers down or id still be playing it to this day.



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