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Forums - Politics Discussion - VGChartz Europeans, I need your help.

JEMC on 20 November 2013
Schreckofant said:
JEMC said:

Immigration is only used by some people (who I'm not going to describe as I'd get banned) to generate hate saying that people have no job because immigrants take it, or that wages are small because immigrants work for next to nothing. Truth is immigrants are willing to accept any job that most natives don't want to do and that the low wages are imposed by the ones who hire them, not by them.

 

I think one of the problems is that there is and never will be an European Union in the way some want. The cultural differences between each region make that impossible. And until the north European countries (they are the ones that want to impose their own way to the rest) realize that, there will still be problems.

There will be a European Union/nation whatever. I'm pretty sure we're going to see a unified Germany, France, Austria, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark even within our regular life cycle. Not because we want to, but because we have to. I don't know about the other countries. Unifying with the southern countries would be like the Unification with eastern Germany, which cost us trillions of Euros, but at the end of the day the "message" will be more important.

And have you ever been to a bigger German city? There are huge areas where you won't hear a word of German. When I'm going to a smaller doctor here it's practically russian and some arabic languages the whole time. I'm pretty sure it's the same in the UK. At the end of the day culture means nothing if people cannot work or eat. Right now a unified EU would still be the strongest economy in the world (especially as you could expect insane growth rates because of the production and infrastructure building in lots of nations), I don't know how it's going to be in 30-40 years.

China wants to form something like an Asian-EU around themselves in eastern Asia. So they'd rule over 2-3 billion (!) people in that area and impose their political and financial system onto them. The US government is actualy fighting for that domestic market not to happen, because it could mean the end of western hegemony forever.

I didn't say that there would be no Union, I said that until some polititians realize that their vision of that union is not feasible, it won't happen.

And I don't need to go to a German city to experience that. Here in Barcelona happens the same thing, with neighborhoods were the people you find on the street speak in russian or arab. It's logic, people prefer to live where they will find other people like them. That, of course, can turn into a problem if the authorities don't try to welcome and integrate them into the rest of the city/country.

Yes, emigrants will try to adapt to the culture of the country they move on (still, looking for other people like them so they can keep some of their own culture), but you can't pretend to change the culture of a whole country. You can't, at least not whitin a few generations. There are many things that go against it.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

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anamme on 20 November 2013

@JEMC...if you meant my comment, I wasn't talking about immigration in the "they took mah jobzz' sense. But yes, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a huge influx of immigrants combined with high unemployment rates will lead some people to take that view.

I should have elaborated and said the topic could be about the culture clash that is taking place here and what the fallout and/or benefits might be.



JEMC on 20 November 2013
anamme said:
@JEMC...if you meant my comment, I wasn't talking about immigration in the "they took mah jobzz' sense. But yes, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a huge influx of immigrants combined with high unemployment rates will lead some people to take that view.

I should have elaborated and said the topic could be about the culture clash that is taking place here and what the fallout and/or benefits might be.

Dont worry, it wasn't for you or the2real4mafol, I was just expressing what happens everywhere, even in my country, and all the time. It's just that in the actual circumstances, people are more prone to believe it hoping that it would solve their problems.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Schreckofant on 20 November 2013
JEMC said:
Schreckofant said:
JEMC said:

Immigration is only used by some people (who I'm not going to describe as I'd get banned) to generate hate saying that people have no job because immigrants take it, or that wages are small because immigrants work for next to nothing. Truth is immigrants are willing to accept any job that most natives don't want to do and that the low wages are imposed by the ones who hire them, not by them.

 

I think one of the problems is that there is and never will be an European Union in the way some want. The cultural differences between each region make that impossible. And until the north European countries (they are the ones that want to impose their own way to the rest) realize that, there will still be problems.

There will be a European Union/nation whatever. I'm pretty sure we're going to see a unified Germany, France, Austria, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark even within our regular life cycle. Not because we want to, but because we have to. I don't know about the other countries. Unifying with the southern countries would be like the Unification with eastern Germany, which cost us trillions of Euros, but at the end of the day the "message" will be more important.

And have you ever been to a bigger German city? There are huge areas where you won't hear a word of German. When I'm going to a smaller doctor here it's practically russian and some arabic languages the whole time. I'm pretty sure it's the same in the UK. At the end of the day culture means nothing if people cannot work or eat. Right now a unified EU would still be the strongest economy in the world (especially as you could expect insane growth rates because of the production and infrastructure building in lots of nations), I don't know how it's going to be in 30-40 years.

China wants to form something like an Asian-EU around themselves in eastern Asia. So they'd rule over 2-3 billion (!) people in that area and impose their political and financial system onto them. The US government is actualy fighting for that domestic market not to happen, because it could mean the end of western hegemony forever.

I didn't say that there would be no Union, I said that until some polititians realize that their vision of that union is not feasible, it won't happen.

And I don't need to go to a German city to experience that. Here in Barcelona happens the same thing, with neighborhoods were the people you find on the street speak in russian or arab. It's logic, people prefer to live where they will find other people like them. That, of course, can turn into a problem if the authorities don't try to welcome and integrate them into the rest of the city/country.

Yes, emigrants will try to adapt to the culture of the country they move on (still, looking for other people like them so they can keep some of their own culture), but you can't pretend to change the culture of a whole country. You can't, at least not whitin a few generations. There are many things that go against it.

So a European union would be just like that: A spanish area, a french area or a german area (even though we don't really have a real culture) and so on. I really don't see aproblem. The EU is actually already working on the Unification or why do you think so many things have been centralized recently and why they want to hand over more and more political and financial power towards Brussel?

And integration is not so easy. Lots of people simply refuse to learn the language of the country they're in or refuse getting proper education. And you cannot really force them if you don't want to throw them out on the streets or let them starve to death (german welfare system does not allow that ofc). But it's still getting better, most of the younger people around have already adepted quite well compared to their parents (who didn't lift a finger for integration and basically did everything to prevent their children to integrate as well) and I think it might improve again within the next generation.

Things can change so fast these days, I really wouldn't be surprised if some european nations with similar premise formed a bigger nations within a decade or two. Especially if the situation doesn'r improve - and right now it doesn't look like it. Lots of nations are just slowly dying an econimcal death. Spain seems to have new problems with local areas like Catalonia rebelling against the political central as well, or at least that's what the media over he said a couple of days ago.



Mummelmann on 20 November 2013
melbye said:
How about leftist morons presenting their ass to islamic extremists in the name of tolerance


They present their ass to everyone. You think it's bad back home? I just moved to Sweden...



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JEMC on 20 November 2013
Schreckofant said:
JEMC said:
snip

So a European union would be just like that: A spanish area, a french area or a german area (even though we don't really have a real culture) and so on. I really don't see aproblem. The EU is actually already working on the Unification or why do you think so many things have been centralized recently and why they want to hand over more and more political and financial power towards Brussel?

That should be the best solution, not an union or becoming a single, big country but a confederation of countries.

Unfortunately, what this crisis has proven is that every country has been more worried about themselves even if that meant going against the EU they had pursued.

Schreckofant said:

And integration is not so easy. Lots of people simply refuse to learn the language of the country they're in or refuse getting proper education. And you cannot really force them if you don't want to throw them out on the streets or let them starve to death (german welfare system does not allow that ofc). But it's still getting better, most of the younger people around have already adepted quite well compared to their parents (who didn't lift a finger for integration and basically did everything to prevent their children to integrate as well) and I think it might improve again within the next generation.

Law is law, first and foremost. Here there's a law that forces kids to go to school until they're 16, when they can join the labor market (I'm confident Germany and other countries have something similar), and if someone doesn't want to do it, they aren't good parents and the authorities must act. Here, that has happened at least a couple of times that I remember.

I agree that you can't force anyone, that's why I said that authorities must welcome them . But that can only be done with people that life in another country. You can't change the culture and habits of a country from the outside. See all the countries in the north of Africa where lots of families have relatives in Europe (mostly France) from many, many years and they still keep their culture.

Schreckofant said:

Things can change so fast these days, I really wouldn't be surprised if some european nations with similar premise formed a bigger nations within a decade or two. Especially if the situation doesn'r improve - and right now it doesn't look like it. Lots of nations are just slowly dying an econimcal death. Spain seems to have new problems with local areas like Catalonia rebelling against the political central as well, or at least that's what the media over he said a couple of days ago.

Trust me, that's a whole problem by itself that has to do more with the stupid polititians we have rather that anything else.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

melbye on 20 November 2013
Mummelmann said:
melbye said:
How about leftist morons presenting their ass to islamic extremists in the name of tolerance


They present their ass to everyone. You think it's bad back home? I just moved to Sweden...


Poor brainwashed Sweden, may some higher force bless them



Kasz216 on 20 November 2013
the2real4mafol said:
I'm from the UK and for some reason people think immigration is a huge problem here but it is widely blown out of proportion by the media

An actual problem here is austerity, something that doesn't work well for any economic recovery and yet is pursued across Europe. It has resulted in increased poverty for those who were already poor. But if you wanted to look at the disastrous impacts of austerity, just look at Greece or maybe Spain. They are better examples than Britain. It's bad here but we got off lighter than those in the Eurozone except Germany.

Were you paying attention to greece and Spain before austerity?

 

To blame austerity is like blaming chemotherapy for making cancer patients sick.



weaveworld on 20 November 2013

They took our jobs!!!



Soleron on 20 November 2013
Kasz216 said:
the2real4mafol said:
...

Were you paying attention to greece and Spain before austerity?

To blame austerity is like blaming chemotherapy for making cancer patients sick.

The problem with austerity is that what is politically safe to cut is cut first, not 'waste' or 'nice-to-haves'. For example, in my country this year they cut interview travel reimbursement for jobseekers, and crippled the budget for legal aid, but they continue to pursue a $50 billion single rail line, and construction of two aircraft carriers for which there are no suitable planes.

True austerity has never been seen.