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Forums - Politics - Gun Control: A Survey of the Police.

 

What are your views on gun control?

Im a communist, so I like gun control 66 51.16%
 
Im a freedom loving, cons... 62 48.06%
 
Total:128
impertinence said:
killerzX said:
Torillian said:
killerzX said:

because by definition, spree shootings arent mass shootings. the FBI defines a mass shooting as someone in one setting killing 4 or more people



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killerzX said:
impertinence said:
killerzX said:
Torillian said:
killerzX said:


No, its true. The only excpetion to all mass shootings (per FBI's defintion of 3 or more people being shot and killed) happening  Gun free Zones, is the Gabby Giffords shooting in Tuscan, AZ.

Thats the only one, all others without excption happened in gun free zones, whether it be gun free school zones, college compassed, malls and resturants, and theatres posting "no guns" signs, gun free military bases. all happened in gun free zones.


I'd be curious if you had a reference for this statistic because I found this through a brief search:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/images/analysis-of-recent-mass-shootings.pdf

which seems to go against what you said.  Now the agenda of those writing the report is obviously suspect, but there are some clear examples in there of mass shootings happening in places that were not gun free zones.  Many private residences as well as a Sikh Temple shooting in Oak Creek WI that I remember extremely well.  

Sikh temple was in fact a gun free zone. Actually in most states even with conceal carry permits, places of worship are off limits. 

also the private places, were gun free zones too, like the Aura, CO shooting. the threatre banned guns.

John Lott's study showed gabby giffords shooting to be the only shooting in 50 years to happen in a non gun free zone.

i used to have a list of all mass shooting and where they took place, and whether or not in a gun free zone, i cant seem to find it. i could have sworn I had it bookmarked. now, im pissed about it. ill keep looking for the list.

study: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=272929

edit: John Lott has actually revised his findings, its actually 2 shootings that werent in gun free zones. He mis-catagorized the IHOP shooting. http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2013/01/consensus-and-disagreement-on-multiple.html


The list is bullshit and you should research any amazing claims twice before swallowing anything as fact. Especially considering John Lott's standing you should know better than to just read his blog and swallow up what he has to say.

To get to his conclusions you have to exclude a large number of spree killings. The only way you can get to his claim is to discount a large number of spree killings and operate with a very weird definition of gun free zones.

because by definition, spree shootings arent mass shootings. the FBI defines a mass shooting as someone in one setting killing 4 or more people


Spree, mass, doesn't matter the list is still bogus. Check the numbers for youself. The only way to get to Lott's list is to heavily massage the data, as in making a random distinction between mass shootings and spree shootings, excluding domestic setting, excluding shootings in public that were outside an establishment and all sorts of other tomfoolery. Lott has an agenda and his list is doctored to fit that agenda. Listening to him on gun control is like getting your Nintendo news from Seece.



BaldrSkies said:
Banning anything only results in the creation of criminal underworlds that deal in such taboo goods.


It already exists and is huge.  The argument is NOT to take guns out of the hands of people in the criminal world, it's to minimize shootings like Sandy Hook.



impertinence said:
killerzX said:
impertinence said:
killerzX said:
Torillian said:
killerzX said:

because by definition, spree shootings arent mass shootings. the FBI defines a mass shooting as someone in one setting killing 4 or more people


Spree, mass, doesn't matter the list is still bogus. Check the numbers for youself. The only way to get to Lott's list is to heavily massage the data, as in making a random distinction between mass shootings and spree shootings, excluding domestic setting, excluding shootings in public that were outside an establishment and all sorts of other tomfoolery. Lott has an agenda and his list is doctored to fit that agenda. Listening to him on gun control is like getting your Nintendo news from Seece.

listing an expert on crime data, is like seece and nintendo?

no, using an expert and his research proves my point. His agenda is to reveal the truth about crime. And it is a fact that nearly every mass shooting takes place in a so called gun free zone. and no it doesnt exclude public places, as why the gabby giffords shooting is counted as a non gun free zone. 

fact is more often than not, whether intentionally or not criminals choose easy targets



killerzX said:

listing an expert on crime data, is like seece and nintendo?

no, using an expert and his research proves my point. His agenda is to reveal the truth about crime. And it is a fact that nearly every mass shooting takes place in a so called gun free zone. and no it doesnt exclude public places, as why the gabby giffords shooting is counted as a non gun free zone. 

fact is more often than not, whether intentionally or not criminals choose easy targets


There's a huge problem with your argument.  It has to do with the fact that you're vaguely referring to "gun free zones" and comparing that to gun control, when it really isn't the same thing and EVEN IF you were to do that, how can you possibly calculate all the times it DID help?  How do you count how many times something DIDN'T happen?  It didn't happen, so there's no way to know.  I am aware the argument CAN go both ways in that since you can't calculate it, it also means we wont know if it's really changing much at all unless we get rid of gun control completely.  However, that doesn't change the fact that no one really knows the "facts" of these things.  Taking statistics from another country also wouldn't help as different places react differently to different laws.



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I would just have to point out that most of the cities with strict gun laws, like DC and Chicago, have some of the worst gun crime statistics.



NobleTeam360 said:
Sorry pretty common sense, at least the majority of law enforcement know that trying to ban guns in any form won't stop the criminals. Your delusional if you do.

If by delusional you mean examining studies from almost any country that has actually taken steps to reduce gun availability and reaped the benefits of substantially lowered gun crime then, yes.

We're all delusional.



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

I honestly think the poll-options should be sufficient to get this thread locked...



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

MDMAlliance said:
NobleTeam360 said:
MDMAlliance said:
NobleTeam360 said:

 

 

See, you are making the assumption that every person who wants to shoot up a school will have the personality and means to do something illegal and get their hands on a gun anyway.  While it may be possible, you have no way of knowing that.  That's why I say you have to be pretty arrogant to think that.

You only need about 25 bucks and know someone who does drugs to get a handgun.

Actually less then 25 bucks if you don't care if the gun has a crime on it already.

Which if you are going to shoot up a school....



Kyuu said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Sorry pretty common sense, at least the majority of law enforcement know that trying to ban guns in any form won't stop the criminals. Your delusional if you do.


It's reasonable to assume banning guns reduces crime rate. A law doesn't have to completely solve a problem for it to be applied.

Unless you ask the people most involved in stopping crimes. As done in the above OP.

They, DON'T think it's a resonabe thing to assume, and assume the opposite.