The rhetoric is really irrelevent thne point is it is comeones view or perspective on what is attractive or ideal. On top of it all we are talking about FICTIONAL characters borne from the mind of a game developer. Why are we even deriving controversy from this?

I and I am sure most others who do find the design of the characters pleasing or attractive or even ideal repsect your opinion that neither are attractive. In fact I'd veture to say most people don't even care. But when people start saying it has no right to exsist because you or someone else finds it offensive then we have a problem.

I wonder why we haven't seen this level of outcry over Fat Princesss by obese people?

LOL. No women don't run around the battlefield in bikinis but they also don't usually have advanced marksmanship training either so you won't find them with anything near the weapon the character has either. But to even stop to pose for sexy pictures or videos while in a combat zone is pretty bold and shows that there might even be a certain level of internal compulsion a desitre to be seen as attractive or sexy. It also shows you can definitely see a woman scantily dressed while in combat.

My main point is there is no reason to assign blame or take offense from these images because it is just someones opinion or idea of a fictional character in a video game and it's something that can be found in many an artist's sketch book or all over the internet (so why aren't we burning down the internet?) and it is largely irrelevent to everyday life.

The outrage over this these types of portrayals IMHO is just silly and as long as there are no laws against portraying 'less than ideal' characters this should be a non-issue.

Has there ever been a successful procecution in the military regarding a sexually unsafe working environment for female soldiers?

The reason I bring up feminists is because they are notorious for stretching the definition of sexual harrasment. Adria Richards anyone?

Surely you don't expect me to take that seriously, do you ? I mean, it's fine as a joke and all that, but it's just more assumptions, with no substance behind it or even actual reasoning...

For the record, my intention before was not to defend Kojima's storytelling or the way he handles certain themes, as I haven't actually played his games. I'm aware of how his works are considered no more than mindless entertainment at best by some, while others praise him beyond that. Regardless of where you stand, judging something as specific as a character purely on how it looks without knowing its background, personality, or story is not justified. Even more when the creator himself is telling you that its look is deliberately deceiving. I wonder what the reaction would be if she ended up being a transexual or something close to that...

If the argument here is that sex sells, then sure, I agree, and it's quite obvious why. Sex is a natural and desirable part of life. It's not only the way we reproduce, but it's also pleasurable and healthy. And for these reasons and more, it has always been a strong influence on any human culture, one way or the other. Why would videogames be any different ? Why would any form of human expression ignore this ?

It's also far from being the only form of "pandering", if that's the issue... "Cute" creatures and colorful rainbows also sell, just as much if not more. And certainly violence sells, far more than sex in many Western countries, I would say. Something that I actually find unfortunate, considering how violence is inherently negative, even when justified. Honestly, how can the partially exposed breasts of one out of four playable characters from Dragon's Crown* or this female character we know nothing about from MGSV create as much controversy as this is beyond me, specially when GTA is by far the most popular franchise. How is interactive torture as much of an issue or less than a female character in a sexually provocative outfit ?

Anyway, I'm rambling again... Hopefully I'm entertaining at least...

*By the way, here's an analysis of Dragon's Crown art and its influences, for anyone interested. References regarding the sorceress are in the comments, and you can find more from the same person here.

I'm going to stop you here.  (Well not really, since this is a forum post and all, and you've already written this, but this is really as far as you need to go.)

If you'd played his games, you'd understand.   MGS games have a thick undercurrent of well... sexism and just in general perversion.  

For an example, one of the first things you do in MGS Peacewalker is to use your X-ray vision to look at a 16 year olds underwear.  

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/8079-Hideo-Kojima-and-Women

Then you later date them...

All the talk about "Well maybe it has a deeper meaning is akin to saying "Well maybe the pedophile was just handing out candy at the local kintergarden to make up for his crimes!"

Also... this tweet.

I've been ordering to Yoji to make the character more erotic, and he did it well. Recently I've been making characters this way. (cont)

— HIDEO_KOJIMA (@HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN) September 4, 2013

That tweet came before what I posted earlier from Kojima, and it's the one that started this controversy. I know because I actually commented on gamrReview when they reported it. It begs the question of whether he actually wrote that on purpose, knowing he would get a certain reaction...

http://www.gamrreview.com/news/90456/metal-gear-sexism-kojima-wants-more-erotic-character-designs/

Now, how are erotic designs supposed to be inheretly sexist is beyond me... And that's all the tweet says. That, and his intention for the character to be popular with cosplayers and action figures, which is what many game creators want. To have their characters stand out by its look and actions, so that you're interested in their story/game. You can accuse him of "pandering" for this (a natural consequence of games being an entertainment and a business, which should surprise no one...), but I don't see how it's more than that.

While it's true that without having played his games I can't comment on the whole picture here, I believe I can still make certain observations from the outside, which don't depend on said knowledge. For example, why is it that this is not being considered here ? Or the fact that both Snake and Raiden have worn skin-tight outfits that could be seen as provocative, around as much as Samus one ? Isn't this enough to prove that Kojima just happens to have no problem with showing skin, no matter the sex ? Also, what about this general consensus I keep hearing that The Boss is one of the best female characters in gaming, thanks to her strength, personality and so on ? Is this character something a sexist person would create ?

Finally, regarding the whole "perversion" side and voyeurism... There's a lot of this that depends on interpretation and personal views, not to mention cultural differences. The idea of peeking at a 16-year old girl's body falls into a grey area in my opinion, as at that age, the body might be fully developed, and we're not talking about any sexual contact. Of course, peeking itself without consent is also somewhat questionable, but you would be hard-pressed to find someone of either sex who has never done it in small doses... Suddenly, I'm reminded of that Seinfeld episode where him and George peek at a 16-year old girl's cleavage (Denise Richards playing said girl), and later he tells Elaine that "you don't consider age when looking at a cleavage" or something like that. I haven't heard of any controversy regarding that episode... Anyway, I'll concede here that I lack enough information to make any judgment of these elements. From what I read, context seems to be essential here.

Still, I think it's fair to say by now that my interpretation of the games would most likely differ with yours, and I know for a fact that others don't see previous MGS games as sexist, which is the bottom line of it all. Different people, different cultures, different interpretations. You're certainly entitled to your opinion and I will respect that, as I respect all views here. But without MGSV even released yet, any opinion either way is speculative, and a trend (from any point of view) can always be broken. The chance of him surprising even you is still there, specially when he's trying to do so, while even pointing out how this character is supposed to be an antithesis of the kind of stuff you're accusing it of. In any case, we'll know soon enough...

A) The boss thing isn't any general consensus i've heard of  before.  Outside which, not sure why you'd think that gives him a pass.  That's more or less the "I can't be racist I have a black friend!"  Line of arguement. 

B)   As for sexual contact.  No, that comes later on in the game.  So that if you do well enough you get to see the 16 year old in a bathingsuit (along with the other female characters, not the men though.

C) Looking at a 16 year old's clevelage because she's wearing a low cut top is a LITTLE bit different then specifically dressing a 16 year old to where a low cut top to force people to look at her cleveage.   Let alone one you specifically created for the role when you could of created a person of any age.

 
D) Additionally, showing skin for comedies effect vs showing it for an alluring reason is again, obviously different... and yeah, only further points to his immaturity.

E) As for cultural.  Well yeah.  Japan  will often portray even young girls like 8 year olds in bathing suits.   Japan is... kinda creepy.

This is why I like Soul Calibur because after watching Ivys ass you can check out Voldos ass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_%28Metal_Gear%29#Reception

The character was very well received by media. According to Eurogamer, "The Boss is often touted as being one of the strongest female characters in gaming."^[9] Some are even calling her "arguably the single most amazing female character in all of video games."^[13]

In 2007, Tom's Games included The Boss among the 50 greatest female characters in video game history, proposing that she should be portrayed in a live-action adaptation by "Sharon Stone, who reportedly served as the inspiration for the character's design."^[14] In 2011, UGO included her on their list of the 50 top "video game hotties", commenting that "The Boss is a bit of a tough one because we instantly find her attractive, but we can't find a hint of sexuality to her at all," and adding that "of all the ladies on our list, she's the one we'd be the most wary to mess with."^[15] That same year, GamingUnion.net included The Boss on their list of top ten video game heroines for "her sheer strength and determination", similarly commenting "we will simply say the Boss is one chick you do not want to mess with which is why we've given her the number 7 spot."^[16]

As far as I know, it's a rather popular opinion... As much consensus as you could possibly get in gaming. It's not a "free pass" that can excuse any "sexist" attitude he might have had, sure, but it's certainly a key element to take into account. And I believe it could be enough to disprove the idea of a "sexist" trend from him/MGS, and instead evaluate things on a case by case basis at least.

Regarding your points B and C, I'm still going to need the whole context, so I won't make any definitive judgment here. I'll just point out a few things about what you said:

- Getting to see the girl in a bikini does not qualify as sexual contact, of course. It falls pretty much on the same "grey area" I mentioned before. Is there something here beyond voyeurism ? Because regardless of personal views, this kind of fanservice is too common to be noteworthy...

- It doesn't surprise me that only the girls are shown here. The target audience for these games are of course men, and there's nothing wrong with it. Not every game has to be made for both genders (or sexual orientations). If we were to somehow force developers to make every game cater to every demographic out there, you would end up with many "design by committee" games that satisfy no one, as well as impacting creativity severely. Games for everyone ? Yes. Every game for everyone ? No.

D) Additionally, showing skin for comedies effect vs showing it for an alluring reason is again, obviously different... and yeah, only further points to his immaturity.

Yes, the context and intent here does make the situation different. Still, I don't remember Seinfeld's justification being challenged in any way, so I think it was just presented as an embarrassing situation, as opposed to suggesting that he and George were "perverts". That's why I mentioned it. Because I'm guessing most people would understand the idea that peeking at a 16-year old doesn't necessarily make you a "pervert". That our bodies don't rigidly adhere to these rational rules and specific numbers.

Now, since you're evaluating things here differently according to their context and intent, can we just agree that we don't have enough of these elements to judge that MGS V character either way ?   ^_^

E) As for cultural.  Well yeah.  Japan  will often portray even young girls like 8 year olds in bathing suits.   Japan is... kinda creepy.

With all due respect, don't you guys have some beauty contests in the US involving children which are also questionable from this very same point of view ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_beauty_pageant#Sexualization

It doesn't seem fair to single out Japan here... Of course, Japan is indeed more lenient when it comes to fictional representations of sexual nature in different ways, which includes lolicon for example. And personally, I'm fine with this, as I see it in the same way as I see violence. Fictional characters are not real, so harm can't be done in any way... And not liking something is not enough excuse for me to oppose its existance.

It's also worth noting here that portraying an 8-year old in a bathing suit is not always meant to be arousing, obviously... Children regularly go to the beach around the world in their bathing suits and no one has tried to ban this, that I know of. And as an example here, Goku is often shown naked as a child in Dragon Ball with drawn genitalia, yet that's clearly not meant to be sexual. It's also often censored in the West...

But I digress... The point here is that the context and actions define the situation. And that "creepy" is a relative term...

At the end of the day, shouldn't we take into account the fact that we're experiencing a foreign work and adjust our expectations accordingly ? Or should we just judge them based on our own cultural standards, ignoring its origin ? I believe in the former... In fact, I see it as part of the point of experiencing them... What makes them different is what makes them stand out from our own. And I definitely don't want this diversity to disappear to satisfy those who can't tolerate it...

PS: My last post on the subject, unless you have a question for me or something to clarify. I wrote enough ! >.< I'll read anything you want to add though.

I just wish the discussion about sexism in games would take the time to look at just about any male character. I know very few males whom are built like the fellows in video games. Why is making the men more attractive than their average real world counterparts never seen as sexist? I think that mentality is sexist quite frankly.

Actually that isn't what I wish for. I really wish people wouldn't pay so much attention to what really amounts to nothing more than idealized avatars in a myth or story and get some freaking self esteem in all honesty. Art has never had to be an accurate reflection of reality. Look at any of it. It's often characters that are larger than life. Is it so bad their physical appearance reflects that?

Actually that discussion has happened.  The answer is extremely obvious and all... but still...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7290-Objectification-And-Men