I think you are misunderstanding what I am talking about. On Vita, you stick the card in and then it kind of installs. If you later delete that to clear up space, it deletes everything. As far as I can tell, there is no way to delete all the patches and installed data and leave the saved data. The way that I have done it is to copy the saved data to my PC and stick the actual save data there (on google drive too), then delete the stuff on my vita so I can copy it from my PC if I need it

I was then talking about how on PS3 and 360, there are some games where you can't copy save games. The only way to move them is to transfer the entire contents of the console to another one using the special data transfer that both the PS3 and 360 have. I have tried to keep back ups of my consoles and on the PS3, you can back up everything, but if you restore, some of the data can only be used on the console on which it was created. On Xbox 360, there is no back up option that I have found, but you can copy data to other devices. However, certain save files (Mass Effect notably) can't be copied like on PS3. I hope that both of them remove this type of restriction so at the very least you can have control over your save files...

That's what I'm taking about... defensive.

You think HDD size, internet connect, etc was not a big deal... and it is a big deal... can just not be for you.

I'm not talking about Xbone... PS4 suffer the same issues.

Was planning on upgrading to a 1TB hybrid drive right off the bat when I get my PS4 anyways but now I might have to go 2TB...Assuming I can find one small enough to fit in the PS4. I have over 30 PS3 games to if I'm going to have that many PS4 games it's going to take up alot of space.

I don't know anybody who deletes things from there HDD until it's nearly full...I don't either. Why would delete games you still have you if you have the space?

How come this is final retail box when game hasn't gone gold yet 

edit: forget it, sorry.

lol amost every next-gen game was already gone gold... every new development done from now is be out via day one patch... it is November already (4 days).

Reviewers already had the final game too.

christ this thread turned to shit for no reason. allow me to summarize.

A) this sucks on xbox one,.. it will be a inconvenience to most people
B) this sucks on ps4 as well,.. it will be a inconvenience to most people

yes, i can delete and then redownload/reinstall but it is annoying to have to manage that. it is annoying not to be able to just load up an old game immediately.

for fucks sake, i want more than 10 games immediately available. i'm not really playing LBP karting or PSASBR or LBP 2 at the moment because i basically finished them but when a friend comes over these are my go to games. sometimes an old game gets new DLC and i want to revisit it.

This sumarise everything in a great way.

It is not a Xbone or PS4 issue... it is a next-generation issue (I posted two game on PS4 that have a install size over 40GB too).

Just to add the download for these 40GB is crazy.

You can make your own calc in the link below... I used 10% overhead but I'm sure 99% of the people can't have this download efficience with their internet at home... it is close to 20-30% overhead (adding the servers overhead too).

http://www.numion.com/calculators/time.html

For me it is a huge deal... my connect is 20Mbps... so minimum of 8 hours for a a 40GB game.

why is everybody ignoring this?

Nevermind, continue to ignore it. I just read it and the word "required" throws the whole thing off.