Of course nobody buys it *only* for DC but I am still considering cancelling my preorder. For 400+ euro what do I get? Knack? No, thanks. KZ for 59 euros? And the indies don't get me. Really Sony, contrast for DC? No way. Still I want to try the console out :( But somehow I think I should wait for a slim model which is cheaper.

The launch line-up is really not good in my opinion, especially worse without DC which looked like a lot of fun to me.

But within about 3 months you are going to have Drive Club and inFamous. I don't know what games you are interested in, but I will be kept busy by Killzone and AC IV primarily, then also Need for Speed and FIFA. I wasn't actually planning on buying Drive Club, since NfS looks more fun, but I was going to play the free version. Watch_Dogs' delay is more of a dissapointment for me

Looking at your avatar, you might be better off waiting, since South Park comes out in December, but there is no guarantee that you'll be able to get a console in Feburary. Another few months from then you'll get Destiny and Watch_Dogs, so there is plenty on the horizon

there will be a significant dropoff after holidays because it's after holidays, not because of less games.

I don't want to spend 400 euros to play games I can play on 360, too. Killzone looks good, yes! But this is *one* game for 450+ euros! No thanks. Perhaps I have to clarify: I don't buy games at release. I wait until they drop in price. DC was perfect for me as it was free. I am a racing fan and I always had a "horizon feeling" with DC which I loved. So I could've tested the new controller, the graphics, the sharing stuff... All that is interesting with a new console.

As I said, I still didn't cancel my preorder... Perhaps I will use it as an expansive bluray-player until the good games come

You are spending 400 euros for games that you can play on 360 (and Xbone) for the first few months. You are not suddenly going to throw the console out after a year, you're going to keep it for many. Sony are going to deliver more quality games over the life cycle of the console, even if M$ might have an advantage thanks to paying for Ryse and Dead Rising 3. Also, Drive Club PS+ was only a an extended demo, it wasn't the full game

Oh yeah and you can get Knack too!

I dont think thats the reason for delaying (I do think its because it needs more work)... but it does have a positive that they can spend more time on it (and make it a more quality product) and put it in the 2014 release schedule. That will mean Sony will have maybe 3-4 exclusives in 2014, so expect Infamous, DriveClub, TheOrder and an Uncharted/NDg. That's a pretty good list of games... still expecting a LBP3 game as well.

What with other car games coming out GT/NFS... i dont think its a massive loss. I am now interested in NFS which I wasnt before....

I do get shocked by some of the internet rage though. There are lots of games coming out at launch, and what with console/accessory costs.. it's not cheap. People seem to want lots of exclusives launched at the same time (which isnt good for the industry). Some people will be disappointed because they wanted driveclub, but many people are complaining for no real reason. Currently my games will cost about £250.. now I can afford that but many people cannot afford more than 1 or 2 games, but apparently 32 odd games isnt enough... crazy.

M$, really? *sigh*

Well, of course there are more games to come but perhaps then the console is also cheaper. And I know about a console, thanks for trying to teach me.

And then the "paying" argument... Man, I thought we could have a normal discussion... And I also said I have zero interest in Knack, at all. A look at the pre-orders tells me only a few people have any interest in it.

There are so many great games available..I know people have different tastes but what with 3rd party AAA and the massive number of quality titles (I wont use the word indies because people seem to use that as a negative)... cant believe there is nothing of interest that will last people over the xmas period.

Also dont get this.. I can play these games on my PS3/Xb360.. yeah but they will be crappier versions. Why would i want an open world game for example to look/run worse and it will cost me about the same on a new console. If you are going to move up anyway, why wouldnt you use it as a positive to buy the next gen versions, seems like a sensible decision.. invest in your new game collection, not in your old one.

It's sad that people feel that its only exclusives that are worth getting a gaming console for. It's certainly not worth pre-ordering any console at the start of a generation if all of these games available are not of interest and people buy very little games for it. Leave the launch period to us crazies that buy lots of games regardless of type :)

Sony could honestly launch the PS4 with 0 exclusives and it'll still fly off the shelf at launch.

MS can be lots of things, M$ is only one thing.

I wouldn't expect the console to get a price cut for the first year. They already have a price advantage and demand seems good. Even if the One gets cheaper (see how much more silly that sounds than the Xbone), I think Sony would still leave the PS4 where it is as they can't take as a big a financial hit.

It's not an arguement, M$ paid Capcom and Crytek to make Xbox exclusives, there is no arguement over it. My point is that they employed a similar strategy at the start of the last generation and it means that you aren't going to get a consistent flow of exclusives, since they won't keep buying 3rd party exclusives. They have invested in a few first party studios, mainly 343 and Black Tusk, but it's still not many. 1 bought about 1 new Xbox 360 game over the last year. When I got my Xbox 360, I bought it with 4 games; Gears of War, Lost Odyssey, Mass Effect and Ace Combat 6. Gears continued as an exclusive, but LO got no follow up despite its brilliance and the other 2 stopped being exclusive. That's why them paying for exclusives can be a bad thing, I would prefer they spent the money on new studios, or ideally Halo Wars 2

Knack was a joke...