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Forums - Microsoft - [CONFIRMED] Marious (Ryse) Polygon Count Downgrade from 150K to 85K

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Mr Puggsly on 29 September 2013
HeresHoping said:
Yay for next gen! This enthusiastic comment meant for both X1 and PS4! What the fridge are we paying for? What defines next gen? Frame rates? We preorder and then hope that something changes from last gen. What are we getting?

Patience my boy. Just look how significantly better more recent 360 and PS3 titles look compared to launch window releases.



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ethomaz on 29 September 2013

Puppyroach said:

They exchanged high polygon count with lower in order to make the models more life-like with better shaders and textures. High polygon count (and mind you, Ryse still has higher than even Crysis 3) can´t surely be the only measure for high quality, richly detailed graphics, would you agree?

Two differents subjects.

They can't say "we have the most advanced character ever created with 150k polygons" and after that say "ohhh we decreased the polygons to use more effects in the character".

The claim is wrong and need to be criticized.

After that they saw they have a limitation... the hardware can't hold what they want in effects with 150k polygons... so they decreased the polygons... the look seems better.

So the result have to be applauded.

Now if they did the same effects with 150k polygon the result should be ever better... I think that was the first plan and what they expected to reach... so why not try first to make the claim after...  here in Brazil we have a popular saying for this but I think won't make sense for you guys.

I don't understand why I need or love or hate a company... I love and hate according to what they do... good = love... bad = hate.



Machiavellian on 29 September 2013
ethomaz said:

fighter said:

you lost trust in a developper over changes and are still glad they made the changes they did

I criticize the developer that make PR false information but I like they are working to fix the things... the new presentation showed some improvements in effects.

Two different subjects.

I don't like when they do the wrong thing... I like when they do the right thing... It is like when me or you make a mistake but in this case they are public persons/companies... they can't make these mistakes.

I have to call BS on that one.  I expect such statements from a fanboy which I hope you are not touting that banner.  Developers make mistakes all the time because they are human.  They make PR statements which most times are just tweets or them talking to the press more than anything else.  Yes, at the time of E3 they were pushing a much higer poly count for the main characters.  Later in development, they decided to go a different direction.  This happens all the time especially when tweaking and balancing a game for a consistent experience.  Only fanboys get up in arms about numbers.  As long as the end result looks just as good and perform just as good than thats where it matters.

I hate to bring it up again but its like your statements on Drive Club and Forza.  You keep talking about DC being 60 but its not, then you are comparing it to Forza which is 60 and making claims as if the two games are equal in their focus which is not the case.  

I believe its time to turn down the banner waving and stick to the facts.



ethomaz on 29 September 2013

Machiavellian said:

I have to call BS on that one.  I expect such statements from a fanboy which I hope you are not touting that banner.  Developers make mistakes all the time because they are human.  They make PR statements which most times are just tweets or them talking to the press more than anything else.  Yes, at the time of E3 they were pushing a much higer poly count for the main characters.  Later in development, they decided to go a different direction.  This happens all the time especially when tweaking and balancing a game for a consistent experience.  Only fanboys get up in arms about numbers.  As long as the end result looks just as good and perform just as good than thats where it matters.

I hate to bring it up again but its like your statements on Drive Club and Forza.  You keep talking about DC being 60 but its not, then you are comparing it to Forza which is 60 and making claims as if the two games are equal in their focus which is not the case.

I believe its time to turn down the banner waving and stick to the facts.

When I said DC is 60fps? Show me guy... I challenge you.

Fact: DriveClub looks better overall than Forza 5... and? The car model looks better in Forza 5?... and? Everything else looks better in DriveClub?... and?

Now about your first paragraph... they missed the target because they faced a limitation... so before try they make the "EVER" claim... so if they make the claim and didn't reach that they are wrong... nothing will never changed that and they need to be criticized.

After that they changed the things and started to work in others ways... if they other is working it is a good thing but it will never change the claim "EVER" because it is wrong.

I have my bias but I'm fine with that... I don't have double standards or banner... I'm honest and show the right thing wharever the subject is... I don't live in a world where if you like something in a game you can't dislike other thing.

And just for your hate... DriveClub is targeting 60fps and I'm not sure if the changes makes Ryse better.



Machiavellian on 29 September 2013
ethomaz said:

Puppyroach said:

They exchanged high polygon count with lower in order to make the models more life-like with better shaders and textures. High polygon count (and mind you, Ryse still has higher than even Crysis 3) can´t surely be the only measure for high quality, richly detailed graphics, would you agree?

Two differents subjects.

They can't say "we have the most advanced character ever created with 150k polygons" and after that say "ohhh we decreased the polygons to use more effects in the character".

The claim is wrong and need to be criticized.

After that they saw they have a limitation... the hardware can't hold what they want in effects with 150k polygons... so they decreased the polygons... the look seems better.

So the result have to be applauded.

Now if they did the same effects with 150k polygon the result should be ever better... I think that was the first plan and what they expected to reach... so why not try first to make the claim after...  here in Brazil we have a popular saying for this but I think won't make sense for you guys.

I don't understand why I need or love or hate a company... I love and hate according to what they do... good = love... bad = hate.

Here is my problem.  Can you find one link that shows Crytek stating they have "the most advance character ever created".  Its one thing to criticize a company for making something up, its another when you make something up.  I did some digging and could not find a statement like that from Crytek so I will leave it up to you to provide the proof.  The effects been turned up and the poly count dropped.  This does not make they liars, deceitful or inept.  It just means they decided to go a different direction where the effects are more important than the poly count.



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ethomaz on 29 September 2013

Machiavellian said:

Here is my problem.  Can you find one link that shows Crytek stating they have "the most advance character ever created".  Its one thing to criticize a company for making something up, its another when you make something up.  I did some digging and could not find a statement like that from Crytek so I will leave it up to you to provide the proof.  The effects been turned up and the poly count dropped.  This does not make they liars, deceitful or inept.  It just means they decided to go a different direction where the effects are more important than the poly count.

Yeah I can... it happened at CryTek Dev with a interview shared by the own CryTek... the same place that they shared the slide about 150k... no video was shared but you can read here... if you at least read the thread you will see I already posted that but...

Before I forget too... CryTek said the 1080p resolution at E3 and not DigitalFoundry like some guys here thinks... the DF liar was about KI (they guessed 1080p and posted like it was 1080p).

http://www.crytek.com/blog/revelations-of-ryse-yannick-boucher

PS. Five seconds on google.



fighter on 29 September 2013
Machiavellian said:
ethomaz said:

Puppyroach said:

They exchanged high polygon count with lower in order to make the models more life-like with better shaders and textures. High polygon count (and mind you, Ryse still has higher than even Crysis 3) can´t surely be the only measure for high quality, richly detailed graphics, would you agree?

Two differents subjects.

They can't say "we have the most advanced character ever created with 150k polygons" and after that say "ohhh we decreased the polygons to use more effects in the character".

The claim is wrong and need to be criticized.

After that they saw they have a limitation... the hardware can't hold what they want in effects with 150k polygons... so they decreased the polygons... the look seems better.

So the result have to be applauded.

Now if they did the same effects with 150k polygon the result should be ever better... I think that was the first plan and what they expected to reach... so why not try first to make the claim after...  here in Brazil we have a popular saying for this but I think won't make sense for you guys.

I don't understand why I need or love or hate a company... I love and hate according to what they do... good = love... bad = hate.

Here is my problem.  Can you find one link that shows Crytek stating they have "the most advance character ever created".  Its one thing to criticize a company for making something up, its another when you make something up.  I did some digging and could not find a statement like that from Crytek so I will leave it up to you to provide the proof.  The effects been turned up and the poly count dropped.  This does not make they liars, deceitful or inept.  It just means they decided to go a different direction where the effects are more important than the poly count.

they did say it was probably the most detailed caracter ever made, polygons or triangles were not the only factor to sustain that statement and the caracter being already made it was not a promise but a fact

 

as any other developer they are welcomed to make positive changes as long as they are clear about them, which they were when they did

as far as we know it might still be "the most detailed caracter ever made" for a mainstream game, so yeah, ethomaz is the one who is unclear and needs to provide a list of more detailed caracters not only in polygons



Machiavellian on 29 September 2013
ethomaz said:

Machiavellian said:

I have to call BS on that one.  I expect such statements from a fanboy which I hope you are not touting that banner.  Developers make mistakes all the time because they are human.  They make PR statements which most times are just tweets or them talking to the press more than anything else.  Yes, at the time of E3 they were pushing a much higer poly count for the main characters.  Later in development, they decided to go a different direction.  This happens all the time especially when tweaking and balancing a game for a consistent experience.  Only fanboys get up in arms about numbers.  As long as the end result looks just as good and perform just as good than thats where it matters.

I hate to bring it up again but its like your statements on Drive Club and Forza.  You keep talking about DC being 60 but its not, then you are comparing it to Forza which is 60 and making claims as if the two games are equal in their focus which is not the case.

I believe its time to turn down the banner waving and stick to the facts.

When I said DC is 60fps? Show me guy... I challenge you.

Fact: DriveClub looks better overall than Forza 5... and? The car model looks better in Forza 5?... and? Everything else looks better in DriveClub?... and?

Now about your first paragraph... they missed the target because they faced a limitation... so before try they make the "EVER" claim... so if they make the claim and didn't reach that they are wrong... nothing will never changed that and they need to be criticized.

After that they changed the things and started to work in others ways... if they other is working it is a good thing but it will never change the claim "EVER" because it is wrong.

I have my bias but I'm fine with that... I don't have double standards or banner... I'm honest and show the right thing wharever the subject is... I don't live in a world where if you like something in a game you can't dislike other thing.

And just for your hate... DriveClub is targeting 60fps and I'm not sure if the changes makes Ryse better.

I will show you because you mentioned it in comparison to Forza a lot.  I will not waste this thread with it.  Drive Club looks better to YOU which you seem to forget is an opinion not a statement of fact.  I watch the vidoes for drive club, from screen tearing to popin to low muddy shadows.  If those float your boat or you just ignored than fine.

Last topic on Drive Club, the developer can target whatever they want, when they actually do it is when you can thump your chest.  Last statement from the developer is that the game is locked at 30fps.

You have no clue what was missed.  This is pure opinion.  You have no clue if its limitation in the hardware or just a totally change in direction for the complete game assets.  As for making a claim, was the main character running at those levels when shone at E3 or more to the point when they talked about game assets at the autodesk event.  If this was the case then there was no lying.  If a developer decides to change direction well, by golly they have that right.  There is nothing to pin on them since the game is not out.

The only problem I have with bias is when people make claims as if they are facts instead of their view point or opinion.  I do not see you pinning KZ for mostly 60fps.  You take their word that this will not effect your gameplay but we will see when the game release.  What I find is that people are less critical of their platform of choice while they nick pick the other for anything preceived as a defect.



Machiavellian on 29 September 2013
ethomaz said:

Machiavellian said:

Here is my problem.  Can you find one link that shows Crytek stating they have "the most advance character ever created".  Its one thing to criticize a company for making something up, its another when you make something up.  I did some digging and could not find a statement like that from Crytek so I will leave it up to you to provide the proof.  The effects been turned up and the poly count dropped.  This does not make they liars, deceitful or inept.  It just means they decided to go a different direction where the effects are more important than the poly count.

Yeah I can... it happened at CryTek Dev with a interview shared by the own CryTek... the same place that they shared the slide about 150k... no video was shared but you can read here... if you at least read the thread you will see I already posted that but...

Before I forget too... CryTek said the 1080p resolution at E3 and not DigitalFoundry like some guys here thinks... the DF liar was about KI (they guessed 1080p and posted like it was 1080p).

http://www.crytek.com/blog/revelations-of-ryse-yannick-boucher

PS. Five seconds on google.

2 secs for CTRL F to find this statement

most advanced facial animations ever seen in video games.

So can you find me a statement where they say its the most advance character ever created because if you do not even take the time to read the article, I believe you are wasting my time.



ethomaz on 29 September 2013

fighter said:

ethomaz is the one who is unclear and needs to provide a list of more detailed caracters not only in polygons

Old or new example... I can give more.

Ayane (Ninja Gaiden 3 Razor's Edge) have ~110k (depends what outfit are you using in the game)

With a towel she have only 20k