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Forums - Nintendo - If consoles sales are all about the software, then what's the point Wii U's second screen?

To make more exciting software. When people say "it's all about the software", they mean in contrast with the power wars, which bring more pretty in general, while games can still be just as good with weaker hardware.

With new interfaces though, a whole new dimension can be explored in software. It's like getting a third hand on the end of a tail.



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happydolphin said:
To make more exciting software. When people say "it's all about the software", they mean in contrast with the power wars, which bring more pretty in general, while games can still be just as good with weaker hardware.

With new interfaces though, a whole new dimension can be explored in software. It's like getting a third hand on the end of a tail.

Sure. I don't think people can disagree there. But my feeling is the Wii Remote is a better interface for such an endeavor. And the Gamepad is a step backwards from the Revolution.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

Arius Dion said:
happydolphin said:
To make more exciting software. When people say "it's all about the software", they mean in contrast with the power wars, which bring more pretty in general, while games can still be just as good with weaker hardware.

With new interfaces though, a whole new dimension can be explored in software. It's like getting a third hand on the end of a tail.

Sure. I don't think people can disagree there. But my feeling is the Wii Remote is a better interface for such an endeavor. And the Gamepad is a step backwards from the Revolution.

It's more added to what's already there. That's like saying that the L & R buttons are a step back from the A and B buttons because the A and B buttons are better buttons.

Also, the gamepad was heavily used on the DS, so I don't see why it's so resented when it comes to the U.



happydolphin said:
Arius Dion said:
happydolphin said:
To make more exciting software. When people say "it's all about the software", they mean in contrast with the power wars, which bring more pretty in general, while games can still be just as good with weaker hardware.

With new interfaces though, a whole new dimension can be explored in software. It's like getting a third hand on the end of a tail.

Sure. I don't think people can disagree there. But my feeling is the Wii Remote is a better interface for such an endeavor. And the Gamepad is a step backwards from the Revolution.

It's more added to what's already there. That's like saying that the L & R buttons are a step back from the A and B buttons because the A and B buttons are better buttons.

Also, the gamepad was heavily used on the DS, so I don't see why it's so resented when it comes to the U.

I don't think its like saying that at all. Moreso imagine if after the NES instead of going the SNES route (controller wise) Nintendo copied an Atari 2600 controller for the SNES. I don't see the Gamepad as adding to the Wii Remote in any way, its an abandonment of it in my eyes.

Home console space and Portables aren't lock step. Look at the Vita; Its trying to be a home console on the go and its flopping like a fish outta water. Wii U attempting to be (in your eyes a home console DS) Is also flopping. So..



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

Arius Dion said:

I don't think its like saying that at all. Moreso imagine if after the NES instead of going the SNES route (controller wise) Nintendo copied an Atari 2600 controller for the SNES. I don't see the Gamepad as adding to the Wii Remote in any way, its an abandonment of it in my eyes.

Home console space and Portables aren't lock step. Look at the Vita; Its trying to be a home console on the go and its flopping like a fish outta water. Wii U attempting to be (in your eyes a home console DS) Is also flopping. So..

I see the zelda fan talking ;) I hear ya bro, loved the motion controls and am sad it's getting competition from Gamepad controls. Still doesn't mean that the motion+ is going away or being replaced, it's just going to have to make room.

And you know what, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Think about it, games that should make use of the mote will, and games that shouldn't won't. It's actually a solution to the Wii problem where all games were largely forced to be played with the Wiimote. I think this is a case of the right tool for the job, not replacing the hammer with a drill.

About home consoles and portables, games are games. If the touch controls added value to the DS, I see no legitimate reason that they shouldn't to the U. And the games so far prove the concept. Miiverse is blooming with pictures doodled on the pad, Nintendoland, though "weak" in sales, still sold a good deal, and people have praised it for its fun factor. Vita isn't a valid reason to dismiss all cross-over ideas imho.



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happydolphin said:
Arius Dion said:
happydolphin said:
To make more exciting software. When people say "it's all about the software", they mean in contrast with the power wars, which bring more pretty in general, while games can still be just as good with weaker hardware.

With new interfaces though, a whole new dimension can be explored in software. It's like getting a third hand on the end of a tail.

Sure. I don't think people can disagree there. But my feeling is the Wii Remote is a better interface for such an endeavor. And the Gamepad is a step backwards from the Revolution.

It's more added to what's already there. That's like saying that the L & R buttons are a step back from the A and B buttons because the A and B buttons are better buttons.

Also, the gamepad was heavily used on the DS, so I don't see why it's so resented when it comes to the U.

The gamepad requires full breaking of focus via head movement, to use, as opposed to the DS screen, which is a quick look up and down, and keep the head focused.  It is not the same thing, but it is connected a bit.  One could, for example, combine the two screens together on the DS set up and play as one.  The Wii U is not the same.



richardhutnik said:
happydolphin said:

It's more added to what's already there. That's like saying that the L & R buttons are a step back from the A and B buttons because the A and B buttons are better buttons.

Also, the gamepad was heavily used on the DS, so I don't see why it's so resented when it comes to the U.

The gamepad requires full breaking of focus via head movement, to use, as opposed to the DS screen, which is a quick look up and down, and keep the head focused.  It is not the same thing, but it is connected a bit.  One could, for example, combine the two screens together on the DS set up and play as one.  The Wii U is not the same.

One minor difference that anyone can agree to. But the similarities are also very potent. The touch menu of OoT 3D will be available for Zelda U like it is currently for WWHD. The ability to draw notes on maps like in Spirit Tracks will be there. The touch controls of Trauma Center will be possible and more adequate than the Wiimote's interface. Those kinds of things are all still available in common between the two devices (DS and Wii U).



happydolphin said:
richardhutnik said:
happydolphin said:

It's more added to what's already there. That's like saying that the L & R buttons are a step back from the A and B buttons because the A and B buttons are better buttons.

Also, the gamepad was heavily used on the DS, so I don't see why it's so resented when it comes to the U.

The gamepad requires full breaking of focus via head movement, to use, as opposed to the DS screen, which is a quick look up and down, and keep the head focused.  It is not the same thing, but it is connected a bit.  One could, for example, combine the two screens together on the DS set up and play as one.  The Wii U is not the same.

One minor difference that anyone can agree to. But the similarities are also very potent. The touch menu of OoT 3D will be available for Zelda U like it is currently for WWHD. The ability to draw notes on maps like in Spirit Tracks will be there. The touch controls of Trauma Center will be possible and more adequate than the Wiimote's interface. Those kinds of things are all still available in common between the two devices (DS and Wii U).

The theoretical potential is huge, including the ability to redefine the controller keys on the fly.  RTS could work to.  It is just now, the controller isn't showing it for some reason.  The potential there isn't showing.



richardhutnik said:
cyberninja45 said:
richardhutnik said:
cyberninja45 said:
richardhutnik said:
Arius Dion said:
I'd've rather Nintendo just improve the weaknesses the Wii had rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater. Its not that the people grew tired of Motion Controls, Nintendo got tired of making games (people wanted) with motion controls.

They could have sold the Gamepad like they sold Wii Fit, improve WM+ accuracy/efficiency, wireless nunchuck, and include a Procontroller as to not split userbase. Have an actual account system (not tied to hardware) and have a virtual console like iTunes instead of a trickling out of games.

And lastly, have the right software to move the hardware. Mario U could have been that game, but you can see how lazily that game was made. In any case, Nintendo isnt doing so well financially (by their standards) and their console business is really dragging atm. So obviously changes are needed, no one likes loosing $$

Well, the whole motion control thing got taken over by Microsoft with the ONE, and Kinect 2.0.  But, as was seen with Ryse, it was found that motion control has limited scope where it can be used.  So, Nintendo decided to go in a different direction with the second screen.


You are confusing kinect motion controls with the wiimote both of which can be used very differently, but the wiimote still can do the same as traditional controls and more unlike kinect. The limited use of kinect should be brought up with the wiimote+ they are not the same gameplay wise.

Both Kinect and the Wiimote address the issue of motion control.  I am not confusing the two, but just showing that motion control showed itself to be of limited scope in a control mechanism. Nintendo has been moving away from it for a reason, while Microsoft has been trying to maximize usage of it with Kinect, but finding the best use is anything BUT games.

Again you are confusing the two. Yes both can use motion control, but the way the controls are designed to be used are tow different beast. The wiimote was desgined so it can be still be used in traditional games (the only exception would be the fighting game genre I think it is rather clunky for that), most genre it either improves handling FPS  RTS TPS etc or it doesn't hinder it. The way the kinect is designed it will have trouble just trying to implement control for any free roaming character ie it can most only be used for limited sports game or on rails games.

EDIT- That's why you have people saying the wiimote is greater than the gamepad.  Also when I say wiimote I mean wiimote- nunchuck combo although I think that should be understood.

The Wiimote, without the motion control, is the NES controller reintroduced.  Motion control is a key part of it.  Now, if one wants to have more functionality, then you take something like the Playstation controller and go SixAxis.  

I won't deny here that the Wiimote didn't have a larger impact than the U Pad.  But that doesn't mean one can just try to extend the Wiimote somehow and replicate success of generating growth.  The other way to extend motion control is what Microsoft did.

I guess here, what can be said is no one has managed to successfully come up with a way for the whole body to be a controller AND navigate a 3D environment for immersion.  The Wii U still can still do the Wii stuff, but they moved away from it, because Microsoft and Sont went into that space.  Sony and Nintendo are trying to implement mouse type controls with their controllers though.

The IR sensor also plays a big part in the wiimote a very big part its almost as important as the motion control, one should not overlook that.



My 3ds friendcode: 5413-0232-9676 (G-cyber)



Arius Dion said:
The WiiMote revolutionized the industry, because it had revolutionary software. A Sax only sounds as good as the player makes it sound. Kinect I don't think is in the same league as the WiiMote, so I'm not sure the comparison is able to be made beyond 'both use motion'

After Wii Sports, people were excited at the possibilities the Wiimote held for future software. The problem is after WSR, Nintendo devs got bored and decided they wanted a new toy to tinker with.

There is no software for the Wii U that gets gamers excited about the Gamepad. And every game shown, shows other controller options (which is great) but also shows the Gamepad as not entirely a step forward. Many Wii gamers last gen see the Wii U as a step backwards. The only genre I feel the Wii nunchuck combo didn't enhance was fighting games. but TPS', FPS, I wont go back to DA for those.

Which is my argument that the Gamepad is an albatross around Wii U's neck, And should be sold like Wii Fit was. Motion Controls were abandoned prematurely by Nintendo, (the primary reason for Wii's success was Nintendo's excellent FP software last gen) And once Nintendo bounced, the software dried, and why does any one buy a games console if not for the software?


Exactly this.

To this day I don't know what nintendo was thinking with the wiiU. That is the biggest problem with the wiiU its a slap in the face to people that enjoyed the wii.



My 3ds friendcode: 5413-0232-9676 (G-cyber)