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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Shin'en: If you can't make great looking games on Wii U, it's not the hardware's fault

the_dengle on 21 September 2013
JoeTheBro said:

Can you link me to those Unity and Project CARS statements? That would be news to me.

It would be news to me if the Wii U supported an equivalent API for DX 11.

A lot of things are news to you. :P



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fatslob-:O on 21 September 2013
snowdog said:
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Interview-Why-Unity-Engine-Good-Fit-Wii-U-47173.html

There's an interview with the CEO of Unity where he mentions that DX11 equivalent effects can be made possible.

Can't provide a link to the changelog though because someone on Gaf from Slightly Mad Studios requested people not to do so unfortunately. It basically said that the PS4 and Wii U shared DX11 equivalent shaders if I remember correctly.

Tbh, there isn't a great deal of difference between DX10.1 and DX11 anyway, just compute shaders and updated tesselation I think.

You can see from the Latte die shot that the GPU is a bit of a Frankenstein creation. The general consensus of opinion is that Nintendo and AMD took the best and most useful parts of several series of GPU and squeezed it all into one GPU.

I'm still convinced that they've included an evolution of the TEV Unit from Flipper/Hollywood but made the changes necessary to give the Wii U a standard rendering pipeline. This would explain how they could manage something like Bayonetta 2 (and The Wonderful 101 for that matter) with so few programmable shaders.

That would give developers 'free' use of HDR/depth of field/whatever else they've included but would have the disadvantage of not having a great deal of spare floppage if someone comes up with a new lighting system etc for the PS4 and One. Probably worth doing though, would just mean developers would be 'stuck' using the fixed function version.

@Bold Source please ?



JoeTheBro on 21 September 2013
the_dengle said:
JoeTheBro said:

Can you link me to those Unity and Project CARS statements? That would be news to me.

It would be news to me if the Wii U supported an equivalent API for DX 11.

A lot of things are news to you. :P

A lot of things would be news to me, if they were real :(

Just like if unicorns (RIP ethomaz) were real, that would be news to me too. Front page even.



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Incubi on 21 September 2013
JoeTheBro said:
the_dengle said:
JoeTheBro said:

Can you link me to those Unity and Project CARS statements? That would be news to me.

It would be news to me if the Wii U supported an equivalent API for DX 11.

A lot of things are news to you. :P

A lot of things would be news to me, if they were real :(

Just like if unicorns (RIP ethomaz) were real, that would be news to me too. Front page even.

What do you mean RIP ethomaz? Is he Richard Warren, the Soul Calibur pro player who died recently?



JoeTheBro on 21 September 2013
Incubi said:
JoeTheBro said:

A lot of things would be news to me, if they were real :(

Just like if unicorns (RIP ethomaz) were real, that would be news to me too. Front page even.

What do you mean RIP ethomaz? Is he Richard Warren, the Soul Calibur pro player who died recently?

No. Ethomaz is a member who was banned because he equated anyone who believed in the dgpu xbone rumor as believing in unicorns.



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zippy on 21 September 2013
ninjablade said:
JoeTheBro said:
MDMAlliance said:
JoeTheBro said:

????????????

When discussing the power of a system, you can't say "look at this game. It's amazing. It proves the system has tons of power" and then retreat and say "well it's not amazing yet, the games still in development for pete's sake."

I know by release X should be looking better than it currently does, but right now it doesn't. No point to bring it up yet.

With DriveClub we knew it would start looking better too, but no one used it as a testament of the PS4's power until it actually did look better.

What I'm saying is that the way you were saying it sounded like that was inherently the problem with the game.  Also, regardless of the shortcomings, it is still a technical feat.  It's obvious to people watching that it will look better after some polishing.

At this point it's still something very possible on ps360. That's what I'm saying.

The fact that GTA5 looks better in every department then X, from models, lighting, textures, animation and AA, you would think people would stop bringing up X but they still do, i swear if bayo2, mario kart 8 and X were were on 360/ps3 nobody would call them the best looking games on those consoles.



Lol..has Red Dead Redemption been dumped, ps why dont you comment on Playstation or Xbox threads, because its painfully obvious Nintendo isnt your thing.



chapset on 21 September 2013

yeah same thing for ps360/vita3ds



Bet reminder: I bet with Tboned51 that Splatoon won't reach the 1 million shipped mark by the end of 2015. I win if he loses and I lose if I lost.

snowdog on 21 September 2013
fatslob-:O said:
snowdog said:
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Interview-Why-Unity-Engine-Good-Fit-Wii-U-47173.html

There's an interview with the CEO of Unity where he mentions that DX11 equivalent effects can be made possible.

Can't provide a link to the changelog though because someone on Gaf from Slightly Mad Studios requested people not to do so unfortunately. It basically said that the PS4 and Wii U shared DX11 equivalent shaders if I remember correctly.

Tbh, there isn't a great deal of difference between DX10.1 and DX11 anyway, just compute shaders and updated tesselation I think.

You can see from the Latte die shot that the GPU is a bit of a Frankenstein creation. The general consensus of opinion is that Nintendo and AMD took the best and most useful parts of several series of GPU and squeezed it all into one GPU.

I'm still convinced that they've included an evolution of the TEV Unit from Flipper/Hollywood but made the changes necessary to give the Wii U a standard rendering pipeline. This would explain how they could manage something like Bayonetta 2 (and The Wonderful 101 for that matter) with so few programmable shaders.

That would give developers 'free' use of HDR/depth of field/whatever else they've included but would have the disadvantage of not having a great deal of spare floppage if someone comes up with a new lighting system etc for the PS4 and One. Probably worth doing though, would just mean developers would be 'stuck' using the fixed function version.

@Bold Source please ?



I've already said, I can't provide a link to the changelog because the link was removed at the request of the developer. It was discussed a fair bit at the time, you'll have to read the Latte thread on Gaf.



fatslob-:O on 21 September 2013
snowdog said:
fatslob-:O said:
snowdog said:
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Interview-Why-Unity-Engine-Good-Fit-Wii-U-47173.html

There's an interview with the CEO of Unity where he mentions that DX11 equivalent effects can be made possible.

Can't provide a link to the changelog though because someone on Gaf from Slightly Mad Studios requested people not to do so unfortunately. It basically said that the PS4 and Wii U shared DX11 equivalent shaders if I remember correctly.

Tbh, there isn't a great deal of difference between DX10.1 and DX11 anyway, just compute shaders and updated tesselation I think.

You can see from the Latte die shot that the GPU is a bit of a Frankenstein creation. The general consensus of opinion is that Nintendo and AMD took the best and most useful parts of several series of GPU and squeezed it all into one GPU.

I'm still convinced that they've included an evolution of the TEV Unit from Flipper/Hollywood but made the changes necessary to give the Wii U a standard rendering pipeline. This would explain how they could manage something like Bayonetta 2 (and The Wonderful 101 for that matter) with so few programmable shaders.

That would give developers 'free' use of HDR/depth of field/whatever else they've included but would have the disadvantage of not having a great deal of spare floppage if someone comes up with a new lighting system etc for the PS4 and One. Probably worth doing though, would just mean developers would be 'stuck' using the fixed function version.

@Bold Source please ?



I've already said, I can't provide a link to the changelog because the link was removed at the request of the developer. It was discussed a fair bit at the time, you'll have to read the Latte thread on Gaf.

You realize that every developer would have to create their own solutions to tessellation, depth of field, and multithreaded rendering in-engine wise instead of lacking the hardware to automatically support the feature set's of the API. Plus last I checked wasn't the R700 bound to DX 10.1 feature set ?



forethought14 on 21 September 2013
JoeTheBro said:

Wii U has DX 11 functionality? That's news to me.

I should have said "equivalent" functionality. Some say that there are some features in GX2 that supersede DX10.1 equivalent features. Due to NDA's, obviously there's no way they'd say anything else. But there are several others that say something similar as well:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/09/developer_interview_black_forest_games_on_bringing_giana_sisters_twisted_dreams_to_wii_u

1. The Wii U has some PC-like dx10/dx11-like systems like geometry shaders

2. On the tech side, having DX11 level features is pretty useful, which makes large parts of the system compatible with our other platforms. 

And here's another from NeoGaf from last year:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=42009722&postcount=1400

Per nintendo's docs the GPU's API "GX2" Supports some features greater than SM 4. SM4 is just given as a point of reference. Ill post the detail later when I have the time. 

Unfortuately, I don't think he ever posted just what exactly was shown to be greater than SM4/DX10.1 equivalent functionality. I wouldn't be surprised if it did have some newer features.