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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Forza dev: You can't talk power unless you're informed

fighter on 12 September 2013
JoeTheBro said:
fighter said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


The PS3 technically was more powerful than the 360 but created a developer bottleneck for multiplats. This time it will be both exclusives and multiplats looking good. I don't see what the problem is here.

You just agreed with Penello there.

Penello didn't say both exclusives and multiplats will look better on PS4...

Neither did he



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-CraZed- on 12 September 2013
Vetteman94 said:
-CraZed- said:
Vetteman94 said:
The only thing I got from this article is that people should leave the speculating about hardware and their difference to people who actually know what they are talking about. He never claims that he knows what those differences are if there is any. So everyone attacking him talking about 3rd party developers would know more, while correct, isnt the point of the article. He isnt comparing the PS4 to the Xbox One, he is just saying STFU unless you know what you are talking about and have knowledge on the situation.

Which lets face it, the vast majority of forum posters don't know a damn thing about it.

If he is indeed saying that then I really have a problem with that more than him trying to rhetorically trying to close the performance gap between the two systems. If he chooses to 'attack' forum dewellers, armchair engineers etc. who are discussing this very subject he is actually hurting the very console he is trying to defend. Those people actually CARE about the consoles enough to talk about that stuff and he risks alienating potential customers. Not to mention who the hell is he to tell people to STFU? If people want to engage in meaningless debate he certainly does not need to intervene.

Also for all the talk, he doesn't have inside information on the PS4s final specs so his comparing the two is as misinformed as all those know nothings.

I dont think he risks alienating any customers, he is just saying that people who are talking like they know what they are talking about are actually hurting the situation because they don't have all the information.  

And people can engage in meaningless debate all they want to, if you want to argue what console has the best games that is fine because it is subjective and perfect for meaningless debates.  But when they start arguing about technical information and specifications and start throwing around information as fact when it is far from fact they need to be put in place by people who know.  Which is what he is doing, and i applaud him for that cause people really do need to STFU about it unless they are directly working with theze systems and know their architecture and can actually formulate what differences there are if there are any worth talking about.

And he never compares the PS4 to the Xbox One, because he knows he doesnt know anything about the PS4. His anology was basically saying that the average person wouldnt be able to tell you what was faster between those 2 cars just by looking at the base value.   But the Engineers, Mechanics and builders of those vehicles would be able to tell you because they have the technical expertise to do so.  Everyone else is just barking to hear themselves and think they know what they are talking about.   

Meaningless debate is just that meaningless. So why would he feel the need to jump into the fray? I don't think people debating over the specs is any more worthy of being put 'in your place' than debating the color of the case. Its a debate and people are talking about them, which is good for BOTH consoles. Shutting that down will most certainly alienate some folks (most people who care enough won't care what he says anyways and keep talking) and is ultimately more harmful than just letting people discuss it without having to chime in with a 'STFU unless you are a dev insider.'

And, yes he absolutely has compared both of the consoles and on more than one occasion DIRECTLY compared perfomance specs:

"We have more memory bandwidth. 176gb/sec is peak on paper for GDDR5. Our peak on paper is 272gb/sec. (68gb/sec DDR3 + 204gb/sec on ESRAM). ESRAM can do read/write cycles simultaneously so I see this number mis-quoted.

We have at least 10% more CPU. Not only a faster processor, but a better audio chip also offloading CPU cycles.

Speaking of GPGPU - we have 3X the coherent bandwidth for GPGPU at 30gb/sec which significantly improves our ability for the CPU to efficiently read data generated by the GPU."

Mr. Ponello has simply done more harm than good (for his position) here.





JoeTheBro on 12 September 2013
fighter said:
JoeTheBro said:
fighter said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


The PS3 technically was more powerful than the 360 but created a developer bottleneck for multiplats. This time it will be both exclusives and multiplats looking good. I don't see what the problem is here.

You just agreed with Penello there.

Penello didn't say both exclusives and multiplats will look better on PS4...

Neither did you


I'm not STAGE...



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Vetteman94 on 12 September 2013
-CraZed- said:
Vetteman94 said:
-CraZed- said:
Vetteman94 said:
The only thing I got from this article is that people should leave the speculating about hardware and their difference to people who actually know what they are talking about. He never claims that he knows what those differences are if there is any. So everyone attacking him talking about 3rd party developers would know more, while correct, isnt the point of the article. He isnt comparing the PS4 to the Xbox One, he is just saying STFU unless you know what you are talking about and have knowledge on the situation.

Which lets face it, the vast majority of forum posters don't know a damn thing about it.

If he is indeed saying that then I really have a problem with that more than him trying to rhetorically trying to close the performance gap between the two systems. If he chooses to 'attack' forum dewellers, armchair engineers etc. who are discussing this very subject he is actually hurting the very console he is trying to defend. Those people actually CARE about the consoles enough to talk about that stuff and he risks alienating potential customers. Not to mention who the hell is he to tell people to STFU? If people want to engage in meaningless debate he certainly does not need to intervene.

Also for all the talk, he doesn't have inside information on the PS4s final specs so his comparing the two is as misinformed as all those know nothings.

I dont think he risks alienating any customers, he is just saying that people who are talking like they know what they are talking about are actually hurting the situation because they don't have all the information.  

And people can engage in meaningless debate all they want to, if you want to argue what console has the best games that is fine because it is subjective and perfect for meaningless debates.  But when they start arguing about technical information and specifications and start throwing around information as fact when it is far from fact they need to be put in place by people who know.  Which is what he is doing, and i applaud him for that cause people really do need to STFU about it unless they are directly working with theze systems and know their architecture and can actually formulate what differences there are if there are any worth talking about.

And he never compares the PS4 to the Xbox One, because he knows he doesnt know anything about the PS4. His anology was basically saying that the average person wouldnt be able to tell you what was faster between those 2 cars just by looking at the base value.   But the Engineers, Mechanics and builders of those vehicles would be able to tell you because they have the technical expertise to do so.  Everyone else is just barking to hear themselves and think they know what they are talking about.   

Meaningless debate is just that meaningless. So why would he feel the need to jump into the fray? I don't think people debating over the specs is any more worthy of being put 'in your place' than debating the color of the case. Its a debate and people are talking about them, which is good for BOTH consoles. Shutting that down will most certainly alienate some folks (most people who care enough won't care what he says anyways and keep talking) and is ultimately more harmful than just letting people discuss it without having to chime in with a 'STFU unless you are a dev insider.'

And, yes he absolutely has compared both of the consoles and on more than one occasion DIRECTLY compared perfomance specs:

"We have more memory bandwidth. 176gb/sec is peak on paper for GDDR5. Our peak on paper is 272gb/sec. (68gb/sec DDR3 + 204gb/sec on ESRAM). ESRAM can do read/write cycles simultaneously so I see this number mis-quoted.

We have at least 10% more CPU. Not only a faster processor, but a better audio chip also offloading CPU cycles.

Speaking of GPGPU - we have 3X the coherent bandwidth for GPGPU at 30gb/sec which significantly improves our ability for the CPU to efficiently read data generated by the GPU."

Mr. Ponello has simply done more harm than good (for his position) here.

Debating the color of the case wouldnt be possible as that information is already readily available, debating technical specifications that you dont understand is the issue here.  And that is a problem and yes someone who has technical knowledge on the situation should come in and tell people to shut up about it because they only make themselves look like fools.  Hence the ridiculously long thread this is with how you say "armchair engineers"?

I think you are in the wrong thread,  this is not about Penello, but a guy on the Forza development team.  He has made no reference to specs or anything or the PS4. I think you were looking to start something, like alot of other people, but it looks like you are both lost and confused.  And should probably heed the advice of the Forza dev and leave the technical talk to the people who know what they are talking about.



TheSting on 12 September 2013
-CraZed- said:
Vetteman94 said:
-CraZed- said:
Vetteman94 said:
The only thing I got from this article is that people should leave the speculating about hardware and their difference to people who actually know what they are talking about. He never claims that he knows what those differences are if there is any. So everyone attacking him talking about 3rd party developers would know more, while correct, isnt the point of the article. He isnt comparing the PS4 to the Xbox One, he is just saying STFU unless you know what you are talking about and have knowledge on the situation.

Which lets face it, the vast majority of forum posters don't know a damn thing about it.

If he is indeed saying that then I really have a problem with that more than him trying to rhetorically trying to close the performance gap between the two systems. If he chooses to 'attack' forum dewellers, armchair engineers etc. who are discussing this very subject he is actually hurting the very console he is trying to defend. Those people actually CARE about the consoles enough to talk about that stuff and he risks alienating potential customers. Not to mention who the hell is he to tell people to STFU? If people want to engage in meaningless debate he certainly does not need to intervene.

Also for all the talk, he doesn't have inside information on the PS4s final specs so his comparing the two is as misinformed as all those know nothings.

I dont think he risks alienating any customers, he is just saying that people who are talking like they know what they are talking about are actually hurting the situation because they don't have all the information.  

And people can engage in meaningless debate all they want to, if you want to argue what console has the best games that is fine because it is subjective and perfect for meaningless debates.  But when they start arguing about technical information and specifications and start throwing around information as fact when it is far from fact they need to be put in place by people who know.  Which is what he is doing, and i applaud him for that cause people really do need to STFU about it unless they are directly working with theze systems and know their architecture and can actually formulate what differences there are if there are any worth talking about.

And he never compares the PS4 to the Xbox One, because he knows he doesnt know anything about the PS4. His anology was basically saying that the average person wouldnt be able to tell you what was faster between those 2 cars just by looking at the base value.   But the Engineers, Mechanics and builders of those vehicles would be able to tell you because they have the technical expertise to do so.  Everyone else is just barking to hear themselves and think they know what they are talking about.   

Meaningless debate is just that meaningless. So why would he feel the need to jump into the fray? I don't think people debating over the specs is any more worthy of being put 'in your place' than debating the color of the case. Its a debate and people are talking about them, which is good for BOTH consoles. Shutting that down will most certainly alienate some folks (most people who care enough won't care what he says anyways and keep talking) and is ultimately more harmful than just letting people discuss it without having to chime in with a 'STFU unless you are a dev insider.'

And, yes he absolutely has compared both of the consoles and on more than one occasion DIRECTLY compared perfomance specs:

"We have more memory bandwidth. 176gb/sec is peak on paper for GDDR5. Our peak on paper is 272gb/sec. (68gb/sec DDR3 + 204gb/sec on ESRAM). ESRAM can do read/write cycles simultaneously so I see this number mis-quoted.

We have at least 10% more CPU. Not only a faster processor, but a better audio chip also offloading CPU cycles.

Speaking of GPGPU - we have 3X the coherent bandwidth for GPGPU at 30gb/sec which significantly improves our ability for the CPU to efficiently read data generated by the GPU."

Mr. Ponello has simply done more harm than good (for his position) here.


It's directly hurting sales with misinformation about power of their console. I'm sure you see people write off things all the time because of misinformation. Case in point I had a friend link me a YouTube video of a guy telling people his reasons why the PS4 is better than the Xbox and I did nothing but laugh but he was convinced until I sent him a link to Sony and MS page to get some facts about both before choosing. 

I think both will do well and be fun. There are posters who don't like MS/Xbox and want them to exit the console business. I think you can tell by the way they attack attack attack.



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Vetteman94 on 12 September 2013
TheSting said:

I think both will do well and be fun. There are posters who don't like MS/Xbox and want them to exit the console business. I think you can tell by the way they attack attack attack.

That works both ways



TheSting on 12 September 2013
Vetteman94 said:
TheSting said:

I think both will do well and be fun. There are posters who don't like MS/Xbox and want them to exit the console business. I think you can tell by the way they attack attack attack.

That works both ways


Of course but I was speaking in this instance particularly.



TimCliveroller on 12 September 2013
NinjaHanzo said:
TimCliveroller said:
 

E3 2005 - 2006


E3 2009 - 2010

You can do better.



Ex Graphics Whore.

Imaginedvl on 12 September 2013
GribbleGrunger said:
Imaginedvl said:

I think so.


You missed my edit.

No I did not lol... I just stopped to read your replies:)



Imaginedvl on 12 September 2013
NinjaHanzo said:
Imaginedvl said:

lol "okay" :) Really that statement and a quick look at your post history is already destroying all your credibility!
Also I'm not sure if you actually read the artile (my guess is not) but this guy never compared the PS4 to the Xbox One...
Do you feel insecure to the point of having to convince yourself or us that the PS4 is more powerful?

Yeah, i feel so insecure.


Specially when i read things like this:

 


Yeah, i gonna trust in Microsoft words.

... wut? another random off-topic shot ... What is the link between that and you "claiming" that Microsoft was saying the Xbox One was more powerfull than the PS4?
Nothing in what this dev. said implies that, you are just making this out of your ass...