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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Wii U VS 4BONE graphics

Play4Fun said:
Scoobes said:

That article is as bias as they come and completely fails at giving any form of balance. Some of the developers she mentions in this article have actually profited and grown hugely this generation. He talks about Bioware making the most expensive game but that same studio from the start of the gen has grown hugely to the point where it now encompasses 5 teams/studios with nearly 1000 employees and has 3 of the biggest IPs going into next gen. That's all from a single studio in 2005.

It also fails to recognise that studios should actually have an easier time of making games moving into next gen than with PS3/360. The PS4/X1 architectures are effectively PCs meaning far less time (and effectively money) can be spent on engine development and more time spent on the games themselves.

Anyway, have studios closed this gen? Yes, of course, but this happens every generation. Developers and publishers that fail to adapt to the changing market conditions will either go under, or get bought by someone else. That's just business as usual in this industry.


Rising cost of game development wasn't anywhere as big a problem in other generations as it was this gen so saying "this happens every gen" is disingenuous and ignores the realities of the problem.

Even Ubisoft and Epic were talking about expecting development costs to double or triple next gen.

precisely. in past generations, even with cost increase, the overall cost was low enough that games could profit with "few" sales. today the costs reached the point where the average game probably needs 500k-1M to break even, and the increase in costs didn't increase the overall sales for games.

it's ironic that nintendo managed to sell more software and thus made more money while keeping costs from 6th gen time.



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Kane1389 said:
Pavolink said:


???

What an excuse.

Devices sell because games, not hardware. If that was the case, DS,3DS and Wii wouldn't have sold better than competition. Those consoles have games that people wanted to play, not because the ram or the gpu.

And third party support has been neglected mostly to Nintendo consoles because their bad relationship with them in the NES-SNES era.

It doesnt change the fact that more power can only attract more customers and boost performance of the system

No, the main thing that it does is boost PRICE. there's a point where increasing specs won't translate into better support/sales, it's a design thing to know what that point is and nintendo made the right choice.



Kane1389 said:
F0X said:

And gets locked into an expensive arms race.

Which is good for us customers

Not necessarily. As a consumer, I'd rather they focussed more on interesting new ways to play instead. Also not keen on paying an extra $100-$200 on a system just so I can play with shinier pictures.



curl-6 said:
Kane1389 said:

Graphics are only about tech. Art is about aesthetics.

Watch this video

"Graphics" just means "visuals". If you meant tech, you should have said tech.

And better tech doesn't necessarily correlate with a game actually looking better.

I hope you are buying an XB1 over a PS4.  That is exacly what M$ is trying to say and everyone who is claiming that the PS4 games are going to look way better can't grasp this concept at all.



landguy1 said:
curl-6 said:
Kane1389 said:

Graphics are only about tech. Art is about aesthetics.

Watch this video

"Graphics" just means "visuals". If you meant tech, you should have said tech.

And better tech doesn't necessarily correlate with a game actually looking better.

I hope you are buying an XB1 over a PS4.  That is exacly what M$ is trying to say and everyone who is claiming that the PS4 games are going to look way better can't grasp this concept at all.

I'm not sure, but I think that first sentence of yours is referring to XBONE having better graphics than PS4. Am I correct?



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JoeTheBro said:
landguy1 said:
curl-6 said:
Kane1389 said:

Graphics are only about tech. Art is about aesthetics.

Watch this video

"Graphics" just means "visuals". If you meant tech, you should have said tech.

And better tech doesn't necessarily correlate with a game actually looking better.

I hope you are buying an XB1 over a PS4.  That is exacly what M$ is trying to say and everyone who is claiming that the PS4 games are going to look way better can't grasp this concept at all.

I'm not sure, but I think that first sentence of yours is referring to XBONE having better graphics than PS4. Am I correct?

No, Not better - Similar.  To me, that's the message that M$ has been trying to convey.  The die hard PS fans just can't fathom that the PS4 has some things about it technically that are better, but they don't guarantee that the end result(games) will have any significant difference.  Unlike most people, I can easily say the PS4 will most likely be more powerful technically and therefore have the potential for the games to be better in some way.  I don't however fall into the trap that gameplay will change much between the 2.



Play4Fun said:
Scoobes said:
Play4Fun said:


Here.

Educate yourself.

That article is as bias as they come and completely fails at giving any form of balance. Some of the developers she mentions in this article have actually profited and grown hugely this generation. He talks about Bioware making the most expensive game but that same studio from the start of the gen has grown hugely to the point where it now encompasses 5 teams/studios with nearly 1000 employees and has 3 of the biggest IPs going into next gen. That's all from a single studio in 2005.

It also fails to recognise that studios should actually have an easier time of making games moving into next gen than with PS3/360. The PS4/X1 architectures are effectively PCs meaning far less time (and effectively money) can be spent on engine development and more time spent on the games themselves.

Anyway, have studios closed this gen? Yes, of course, but this happens every generation. Developers and publishers that fail to adapt to the changing market conditions will either go under, or get bought by someone else. That's just business as usual in this industry.


Rising cost of game development wasn't anywhere as big a problem in other generations as it was this gen so saying "this happens every gen" is disingenuous and ignores the realities of the problem.

Even Ubisoft and Epic were talking about expecting development costs to double or triple next gen.

Game development costs have risen every successive gen and have always been a problem in the industry. This is nothing new.

Go back to the SNES/Genesis to Playstation/N64 transition. Developers were beginning to struggle with exploring 3D and the increased costs of developing in 3D combined with the relatively high costs of cartidges. People seem to forget this. It was actually the use of the cheaper optical disc format that helped keep developers going as they made the 2D-3D transition. Still, a good number of devs struggled or went under.

The transition from SD to HD has had similar teething problems. What people fail to take into account is that publishers of big AAA titles are now moving towards alternative revenue streams for their titles rather than the single game purchase as in the past. Buying a game is part 1. They then have DLC, micro-transactions, map-packs (weapons packs or any other type of overpriced pack), e-bay-like stores (e.g. Diablo III), Pay 2 Progress (fast track) and small standalone titles in the same franchise (e.g. Far Cry: Blood Dragon which has sold 1million). Then there's also different business models such as F2P, episodic content and subscription based MMOs. All are relatively new methods of gaining revenue (except maybe subscriptions) that have gained traction this gen. And that's not including things like product placement (Apple products in MGS4).

There's also little reason for costs to rise so high if the developers and publishers are intelligent about their development. Take Witcher 3, a next-gen open world game, touted as having a world bigger than Skyrim on 3 platforms with a $15 million development budget. Or Metro: Last Light which is reported to have a budget of only 10% of its rivals. Gears of War 1 & 2 cost Epic $10 and $12 million respectively. That's not to say we won't still have massive budgets (LA Noire, GTA V and Watch Dogs come to mind), but it's up to the developers and publishers to budget wisely, adapt to the new market/tech and find ways to counteract the costs by increasing their revenue/profit without pissing off consumers. Those that fail to do this struggle, those that suceed, survive.

Like I said before, this has happened every gen and will happen next gen. Costs have risen every gen and those that fail to adapt their business struggle or go under. This gen isn't particularly different in that regard.



F0X said:
Kane1389 said:
F0X said:
Kane1389 said:

While the competition does both...


And gets locked into an expensive arms race.

Which is good for us customers


Customers have convinced Nintendo otherwise.


How so?



Kane1389 said:
F0X said:


Customers have convinced Nintendo otherwise.


How so?


I think he's pinning the failure and semi-failure of the GameCube and N64 on them having good graphics.



Zero999 said:
Kane1389 said:
Pavolink said:


???

What an excuse.

Devices sell because games, not hardware. If that was the case, DS,3DS and Wii wouldn't have sold better than competition. Those consoles have games that people wanted to play, not because the ram or the gpu.

And third party support has been neglected mostly to Nintendo consoles because their bad relationship with them in the NES-SNES era.

It doesnt change the fact that more power can only attract more customers and boost performance of the system

No, the main thing that it does is boost PRICE. there's a point where increasing specs won't translate into better support/sales, it's a design thing to know what that point is and nintendo made the right choice.

What are you even arguing about here? That more powerfull hardware isn't an advantige and it wont attract more customers?