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Forums - Microsoft - Indepth Look a Xbox One's 'GPU'

the-pi-guy said:

Not in all cases, if a multiplaform game is getting 33 fps on the PS4, they can leverage what the GPU is doing and bring it down to 30 fps, which is pretty much the same.  

The point is that the PS4 has dedicated audio hardware.  The Xbox One could boost the audio capabilities by using the GPU as well, so is that a problem?

No it's not like making a carpenter a secretary, it's like having a secretary then asking a carpenter to help a secretary, so they can do more work in the same amount of time, especially since the carpenter has already done his job.  

In an ideal world. That sounds find, but rarely is the world actually ideal.

The problem is you shouldn't have to take from the GPU in gaming to run the audio.  You would be losing out in graphic fidelity, frame rate, all sorts of other issues.  It's like in old film, how they cut out part of the picture to put the sound on the film.  You were losing part of the film. 

One theory is using the GPU to enhance sound when their is little need for a picture.  That's fine if that's all it is, and sort of a neat feature.  There are some audio only Blu-rays, and perhaps this is the are target.  And yes perhaps the Xbox One could do that too.

But they are using it during a game, that could be a problem.  Plus, Sony is already not hitting the 60FPS on most of their games.  Back to our analogy, the secretary is not as good at framing as the carpenter, construction will go slower.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

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Zappykins said:
SvennoJ said:
 

I've never owned any sony audio equipment as far as I can remember. I'm sold on Yamaha and B&W for my audio needs.
What do you mean by only if you go 2 channel? I get 5.1 DTS via optical on my Yamaha AX1 and 192/24/7.1 via hdmi on my Yamaha RX-v3800.

Best quality sound for movies on blu-ray so far are Baraka and Samsara (96/24 DTS-HD) and Akira (192/24 Dolby TrueHD) sounds phenomenal, crystal clear surround sound. When I put on a CD after it feels like my speakers are broken. (Luckily Yamaha has a lot of great dsp programs to liven up CD sound, The Bottom Line from New York is my favorite atm)

120p 4k 192/24 sound, now we're talking next-gen. It's possible with pixeljunk type graphics, but it sucks that ps4 and xb1 are stuck with hdmi 1.4, and tvs don't accept true 120hz yet. (well some do with a bit of tinkering http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-pc-to-tv/)

Well, envious of your Yamaha!  They make great stuff. B&W too, plus their speakers are usually pretty, pretty.  

For the 2 channel, I was referring directly to the PS3 manual, got that from Sony themselves.

If you have a B&W CD player they should multi sample, which helps a bit, but not as much as up-scaling a DVD to 1080p in my opinion.  Sounds like your Yamaha is doing that already or making 'environmental sound.'

Even HDMI 2, due out this fall, doesn't quite get their either.  It will do 120FPS, but that is for 3D with 1080P per eye, not true 120FPS. But it should give 4K at 60P.  So guess, I want 4K at 240 FPS (so you get 120 per eye.)  I know I aim high, but we will never get to Alpha Centari if we just shoot for Mars.

I will have to check those out.  Been a long time since I have seen Akiria, thanks for the other movie suggestions.  Perhaps you want to start a  'great movie sound' thread?

The 2 channel is over scart and analog connections, optical is limited to 5.1, hdmi does it all.

I use my JVC dvd player or the ps3 for CD's after my Pioneer Laserdisc/CD player broke down. I guess no multi sampling in the dvd player. The ps3 does upconvert CD sound to 176.4 khz output but I don't really hear a difference, the source is still mastered in only 2 channel 44.1khz. I do hear a difference when I let the ps3 convert to 48khz output (which is the default I think) 44.1khz to 48khz conversion isn't perfect. I'm pretty picky about my sound, ripping cd's to 48khz mp3 (no matter what bitrate) to mix with game sound is too much quality loss.
Anyway yes Yamaha has very nice dps processing to give the music the accoustics of a large venue. It works so well It had my kids fooled when I had the ps eye turned on with the amp adding cathedral sound processing to every sound it picked up. Fun stuff.

Hmm still no 120fps with HDMI 2.0, just the frame packing kind for 3D from 1.4b. 4k at 60fps is a nice step, but why not 1080p120, most modern tv's can handle 120hz internally. Damn the HDMI organisation, so slow. I hope they still make good on 10 and 12 bit deep color, no more color banding would be nice. Again tv's already to 12 bit color processing internally, and games have high precision HDR rendering nowadays, yet still forced to push the much richer visuals through a narrow 8 bit pipe.

About game sound, there is a lot of room for improvement there too for environmental sound. Music in games has come a long way but sounds when simply walking around still have a long way to go before it becomes convincing. The old model of a few sound generators here and there and some ambient environmental noises has to be overhauled. Let me hear the individual crickets when I explore the forests in Skyrim, a sudden gust of wind moving through the trees above you, tree limbs rubbing together. Flowing water sound that doesn't simply diminish by distance and takes the environment into account.

So yes imo, sacrifice some graphics grunt and put the GPU to use to render thousands of localized sounds together into a convincing outdoor space. But you can't make a screenshot of it, and reviews hardly ever mention sound quality apart from the music. So not holding my breath for more realistic sound any time soon. Gotto stick to movies to feel like you're there for sound, I'll make that thread some time.



Deleted, double post



the-pi-guy said:
No it's not like making a carpenter a secretary, it's like having a secretary then asking a carpenter to help a secretary, so they can do more work in the same amount of time, especially since the carpenter has already done his job.  

wait what? That does not sound like a good idea at all in real life. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make here with this metaphor/similie... is it better to have gpu utilized for audio or not? from the example I'd say not at all... from the previous posts you quoted I would have thought yes up until what you said as quoted...



Talal said:
I will permaban myself if the game releases in 2014.

in reference to KH3 release date

papamudd said:
the-pi-guy said:
No it's not like making a carpenter a secretary, it's like having a secretary then asking a carpenter to help a secretary, so they can do more work in the same amount of time, especially since the carpenter has already done his job.  

wait what? That does not sound like a good idea at all in real life. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make here with this metaphor/similie... is it better to have gpu utilized for audio or not? from the example I'd say not at all... from the previous posts you quoted I would have thought yes up until what you said as quoted...

Ah, you just part of our long conversion.

Let me explain if the GPU sound is being used for things that are sound only and no video it would be fine. (like a Audio only Blu-ray, like this  http://www.amazon.com/Divertimenti-Includes-Blu-Ray-Audio-Hybrid/dp/B0025ZIU82 )

If they are having to take from the GPU to make in game sound, that's bad.  In a game the GPU should be used only for video stuff. As it will leave less of the GPU free to do what it is supposed to do.  It should not be used for that in games (and there are some rumors.)



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

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SvennoJ said:
Zappykins said:
 

The 2 channel is over scart and analog connections, optical is limited to 5.1, hdmi does it all.

I use my JVC dvd player or the ps3 for CD's after my Pioneer Laserdisc/CD player broke down. I guess no multi sampling in the dvd player. The ps3 does upconvert CD sound to 176.4 khz output but I don't really hear a difference, the source is still mastered in only 2 channel 44.1khz. I do hear a difference when I let the ps3 convert to 48khz output (which is the default I think) 44.1khz to 48khz conversion isn't perfect. I'm pretty picky about my sound, ripping cd's to 48khz mp3 (no matter what bitrate) to mix with game sound is too much quality loss.
Anyway yes Yamaha has very nice dps processing to give the music the accoustics of a large venue. It works so well It had my kids fooled when I had the ps eye turned on with the amp adding cathedral sound processing to every sound it picked up. Fun stuff.

Hmm still no 120fps with HDMI 2.0, just the frame packing kind for 3D from 1.4b. 4k at 60fps is a nice step, but why not 1080p120, most modern tv's can handle 120hz internally. Damn the HDMI organisation, so slow. I hope they still make good on 10 and 12 bit deep color, no more color banding would be nice. Again tv's already to 12 bit color processing internally, and games have high precision HDR rendering nowadays, yet still forced to push the much richer visuals through a narrow 8 bit pipe.

About game sound, there is a lot of room for improvement there too for environmental sound. Music in games has come a long way but sounds when simply walking around still have a long way to go before it becomes convincing. The old model of a few sound generators here and there and some ambient environmental noises has to be overhauled. Let me hear the individual crickets when I explore the forests in Skyrim, a sudden gust of wind moving through the trees above you, tree limbs rubbing together. Flowing water sound that doesn't simply diminish by distance and takes the environment into account.

So yes imo, sacrifice some graphics grunt and put the GPU to use to render thousands of localized sounds together into a convincing outdoor space. But you can't make a screenshot of it, and reviews hardly ever mention sound quality apart from the music. So not holding my breath for more realistic sound any time soon. Gotto stick to movies to feel like you're there for sound, I'll make that thread some time.

I can not encourage your enough to play Alan Wake on a good 5.1 surround sound system with a subwolfer.  The environmental sound is a character all on it's own, and when certain sounds go off, you know you are in trouble (and I get scared!)  Be warned, it can be loud. 

I'd say the second best environmental sound would be when a ferocious dragon attacks if you have a subwolfer.  Kind of shakes you in the chest the way a real lion roar does (yes, has been near lion making loud and low sounds that vibrate your chest and your organs.)

My subwolfer is a nice 13" Sony that drops off around 30-20Hz.

As far as HDMI 2, you have remember what HDMI is for - it's DRM to make sure you aren't copying movies and digitally owned material first, second to bring you quality and convenience.  Never forget the rule number 1.

Good golly, they released the specs as I was typing this!  Going to start another thread.

Here ya go:  http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=167731



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

Zappykins said:
 

I can not encourage your enough to play Alan Wake on a good 5.1 surround sound system with a subwolfer.  The environmental sound is a character all on it's own, and when certain sounds go off, you know you are in trouble (and I get scared!)  Be warned, it can be loud. 

I'd say the second best environmental sound would be when a ferocious dragon attacks if you have a subwolfer.  Kind of shakes you in the chest the way a real lion roar does (yes, has been near lion making loud and low sounds that vibrate your chest and your organs.)

My subwolfer is a nice 13" Sony that drops off around 30-20Hz.

As far as HDMI 2, you have remember what HDMI is for - it's DRM to make sure you aren't copying movies and digitally owned material first, second to bring you quality and convenience.  Never forget the rule number 1.

Good golly, they released the specs as I was typing this!  Going to start another thread.

Here ya go:  http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=167731

I played Alan Wake on the 360, the 640kbps DD filter didn't do it justice. I was more impressed with the sound in MGS4, turning up the mech section loud is an onslought to the senses, gave me shivers down my spine hearing every crash echoing around the room. That was the closest a game has ever gotten to the effect the F4 tornado at the drive in cinema in Twister had on a good setup.

For the subwoofer I love the turbo sound in NFS hot pursuit, really shakes the room, best take off sound in games to date.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewaNMVV64Ks sounds like garbage on my laptop lol.

Best lion roar, Jumanji, thanks to uncompressed CD quality sound on Laserdisc. DVD was a temporary step back in sound quality, blu-ray finally improved the sound part too.



SvennoJ said:
Zappykins said:
 

I can not encourage your enough to play Alan Wake on a good 5.1 surround sound system with a subwolfer.  T

Honestly, Alan Wake was the game that made me really want a 360, and I don't normally buy SP games at all... I've never had an Xbox system never fealt the need or want for one, but Alan Wake got me closest to the purchase this gen...(Gears a close second) XONE for devkit/modding which isn't available at release, and they anounced release date to late for me as pre-orders have  been getting shut down so quickly and I knew the PS4 release date and am a Killzone fan... However, if MS announced there release date closer to the same time as Sony did then I might have pre-ordered it. I'm under the personal opinion that if I got an XONE first i wouldn't want need a PS4... However getting PS4 first still leaves me in need / want of XONE so I figured that was better for my gaming curiousity at this point in time... I rambled a bit and if your still reading this KUDOS to you XONE for the WIN because of DevKit / Modding friendly features not available at launch :(

 

**SHORT ANSWER ALAN WAKE FTW!!!!!!!**



Talal said:
I will permaban myself if the game releases in 2014.

in reference to KH3 release date