You do kno you can but kinect by itself. WHat stop those 50m who had an xbox prior to kinect from picking one up? I guess they didnt want it. 

At 500 theyre profit margins are probably quite nice and theyre still going to millions of systems.

Profit means more to them then unit sales.

Also kinect a huge part of the xbox one experience the are trying to sell, so it makes sense from a marketing and creative standpoint. Let everyone have the same experience, many of the peeps who hate it will likely be converted because we've had nothing but god previews on the device.

It most likely will stay, unless sales are horrific outside of america.

Which is sad for me as the current price point is far to prohibitive, and i know i wont use Kinect.

so since they spent alot of money researching and developing kinect 2.0 which i didnt really want anyways i have to buy it with the system even though its not even required..

im sorry this is the only thing that comes to mind when i read this. and it would be the only way i would understand things from their point of view.

i will still be getting one at some point but more shit like this makes me want to wait for a price drop first. kinect is THAT unimportant to me.

It's just the route they decided to go, for better or worse.  At this point, getting an KineXbox One without Kinect is like getting a Wii without wanting a Wii Remote.  You have to take it or leave it.  The Xbox's biggest fans--the Madden/Call of Duty/Halo crowd probably couldn't care less about Kinect.  I understand that.  I just hope the updated tech brings in new users.   We'll just have to see if their strategy pays off or if it goes down in history as the biggest blunder since the N64 decided to ignore CDs.

Not saying you did backpedal. I am saying if I linked the thread, you would. That is common knowledge though so who cares. You can say that stuff about potential about virtually anything on the market. Until there is proof we can see and play, it's BS. There is nothing mindblowing on the Move. It is, as you said about Kinect, a collection of minigames, with the occasional thrown in support in traditional games. Just like Kinect.

It's cute the way you always make it seem with the Move that Sony could just whip up a killer app to revolutionize gaming and sell the thing like hotcakes but meh... they just don't feel like it. I mean hey lets just rely on 3rd party companies to take advantage of this "revolutionary" add-on we released for the console and spent a lot of R&D money on. Makes a lot of sense.

I know why no one gives a crap about the Vita. It's an expensive handheld that plays watered down console ports and has laughably overpriced memory cards. I saw a guy spend $55 on a 16GB card yesterday. Yikes. And I know why no one gives a crap about the Move. It is a reactionary product too expensive and too much like the Wii, which people were already growing tired of.

This is something I don't think enough people understand or touch on. Kinect on the Xbone is about much more than gaming. I could not care less about the Kinect from a gaming point of view. But it is going to be awesome from an entertainment point of view.

15 million is not selling at all?

Is this what happens when you become loyal to a company? Just say extremely inept things? Lol, no thank you. I prefer to live in reality.

vista was shit for one reason and one reason only.... constructor making shitty computers that couldn't handle it.... but on the right hardware it was working like a charm and was better than XP....
win 8 is way better than win 7 hands down no matter how hard people want to trash the GUI... win 8 performs way better than 7....  yeah booting to desktop with 8.1 will be great for some... but the start button... come on that piece of shit was bad already on win 7 (people actually hated it at the begining ).... anybody that knows how to use efficiently a computer shouldn't even need the start button... but be happy it's comming back for the noobs....
Zune steam rolls iPod.... heck I don't sony  as an hardware manufacturer and even them do better MP3 player than the iPod in terms of playback quality.... at the price tag of an iPod the quality of the product main function (playing music) is really not that great....

the only people that fail most of the time are the customers.... sucks for the companies and sucks for the one that actually use actual hard facts and not perceived opinion and taste.... too bad that category is the minority when it comes to mass market.... it's like for games... a lot of us wish CoD would die or at least not be the center of interest.... yet it is and those mean some great game ideas or probably canned or if they are released are either poorly execute for lack of focus or are completely ignored due to the overwhelming shadow the bigger titles are casting on them....

so yeah vista was a mistake, zune was a mistake and maybe win 8 will be.... but most of it is not due to the reason the customer mostly perceive....

Ah no, 8 is garbage. Blaming the consumer for your failed products is moronic and laughable at best. it IS the consumer who decides what is good and what isn't. it is this type of thinking that made MS reveal the x1 with all those policies no one wanted.

Vitsa was bad because MS made the OS way over bloated, and glitchy. MAny high powered PC's still had issues with Vista, they are well documented.

Zune is a failure period, no way to spin it.

A good product is one the consumner wants PERIOD, you cannot enforce on consumers what they want and do not want.