I'd just ask, where is the proof?

We know the, alleged (because they aren't fully confirmed in Microsoft's case) specs.

But there is simply no developer (at least one proven to be working on both PS4 and XB1 software) who has come out and said PS4 is more powerful, and no multiplatform game comparison that can prove it. Period. That's where we're at.

But the most intriguing thing to me, is this article: http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/need_for_speed_rivals/news/need_for_speed_rivals_may_look_a_little_better_on_one_next-gen_console_than_the_other.html containing this qoute

“What we’re seeing with the consoles are actually that they are a little bit more powerful than we thought for a really long time – especially one of them, but I’m not going to tell you which one," Nilsson told VideoGamer.com at Gamescom earlier today.

Now everybody assumes he means PS4, but are we so sure? In fact I'd argue to say one console is "more powerful than we thought" suggests it's actually the Xbox, since the thinking is PS4 is easily the more powerful console. It's easiest to imagine they thought the Xbox was kind of weak all along based on the specs, and then where shocked when it turned out more powerful than they expected.

We also have carmack who said the consoles are "very close". Which also doesn't make sense on the specs.

Next we have many recent knews that PS4 seems to be struggling. It was revealed PS4 BF3 is 720P (later they say more rthan 720p, with final resolution yet undecided) and IGN saying PS4 BF4 doesn't look good graphically. Granted, PS4 struggling does not mean Xbox is strong, but it IS rather odd Xbox has seemingly avoided these types of problems. And another thing is all the 60 FPS games planned on Xbox.

There are legitimate technical reasons Xbox could be more powerful. Disregarding the cloud, I'd say there's main three factors:

-Xbox GPU could be based on AMD's upcoming Volcanic Islands GPU tech while PS4 would be based on older GCN tech (if this is true, we may find out at the Hot Chips conference literally in a couple days, as there is a presentation about Xbox silicon scheduled). Perhaps this could lead to greater efficiency making flops comparison meaningless.

-The ESRAM could make the GPU more efficient by reducing shader data latency (this one is hard to prove, it's basically just conjecture)

-The peak bandwith advantage. It's not often discussed, but at it's peak Xbox one can draw (according to Digital Foundry at least) up to 192 GB/s from ESRAM and 68GB/s from DDR. A total of massive 270 GB/s peak bandwidth. All that to feed a GPU supposed to be 30% weaker than PS4's, so it means the bandwidth per FLOP advantage is even greater.

Oh, I'm aware 4A games recently stated PS4 was more powerful, pretty much first developer to do so. However, I have strong doubt they even have an Xbox One dev kit,  which would mean they are just going on media reports themselves.

So if you say "oh it's obvious PS4 is more powerful" or what have you. I'd say to you right now, we simply have no proof of that, we have some evidence, but it's not indusputable at all. If and when we get proof, I'll accept it. And no, I dont accept your fanboy goggles statement that Shadowfall is clearly 1000X better looking than any Xbox game as proof...

well it is more powerful... I'll admit to that.... but a 50% increase for a GPU is in all honesty way less impressive than the ratio makes it out to be.... anything under 100% in GPU raw power is usually negligible.... for instance I wouldn't swap my graphic card for a 50%increase in raw power.... unless it would a real bargain like let say around 50 bucks once I traded the old one...

The Xbox One specs aren't just conjecture. After their reveal MS went through the hardware in more detail with journalists. From the information they gave we have the current specs. No developer is going to come out and say which console is more powerful. Third party developers have to work on both systems and have to maintain business relationships with both console manufacturer.

As for your 3 points:

1. All information points to the PS4 GPU being closer to GCN 2.0. Some of the features in the PS4 GPU haven't been implemented in current GCN chips but are planned in GCN 2.0.
2. The ESRAM is there to improve the bottleneck introduced by the DDR3 RAM. For developers to make good use of it will require a lot of work compared to single pool of fast GDDR5, especially as it's only 32Mb. Even then, for most tasks it's slower than the GDDR5 in the PS4.
3. I really wish people would stop adding the bandwidths of the RAM together. At some point the data will need to go into the DDR3 RAM. You can't get peak bandwidth by adding the two numbers together. It's just marketing fud.

As for 4A games, they work on a next-gen engine that's technically very impressive. I seriously doubt they wouldn't have dev kits.

"I'd just ask, where is the proof?"

So it’s about policy, not power.

AY: No it’s not about power.

KY: We are scalable. We are running on a toaster [laughs].

AY: Well, obviously PlayStation 4 is more powerful than Xbox One.

How much more powerful?

AY: It depends what you’re doing. GPU, like 40 per cent more powerful. DDR5 is basically 50 per cent more powerful than DDR3, but the memory write is bigger on Xbox One so it depends on what you’re doing.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=166840&page=1#

OP needs to re read his own post.

Horrific misquote !

Context is everything

Adding bandwidth numbers........

*sigh*

The hardware has comparable "cousins" on the PC and yes, there are fairly large differences between the graphics hardware alone.

Bandwidth it gets trickier, the Xbox One by default of having a weaker Graphics processing unit will have, lower bandwidth requirements, there is simply less hardware to saturate the bus.
The eSRAM should make up for allot of the deficiencies, how much, well. That remains to be seen, but it is an added layer that makes life more difficult for developers, so Microsoft will want to make life easier in other areas for developers to make up for it.

Basically all the proof essentially comes down to logic and the proof we have on the ultimate gaming platform... The PC.

Its only launch.

But there is no proof in the games we have seen so far.

KZ, Ryse, Infamous, Forza 5, Quantum Break, show theres no advantage on the screen for either camp. Same as this gen.

Fixed

but they aren't bring their game to xbone so their opinion doesn't count...