The poor deserve better, no matter what country they live in. They only stand for their government's bullshit for so long before they take matters into their own hands. 

Well, that was a waste of time. I never subscribed to their being any tangible metric for success in life (society may say different, but success should always be about personal aspiration,) but the line of thinking in this article seems to be "shut up, stop complaining, and don't try to better your situation and the situation of the world around you."

Then you didn't actually read it and missed the point completely.  Since like the last one was all about how to better your situation and the situation of the world around you.

Completly guilty on that.  Almost wrote "but I didn't finish it," but I figured someone would call me out on it if I got it wrong.  I'll finish reading it when I'm out of work.

Well first off... your arguement is that the poor deserve better no matter what their conditions are like?    There will always be poor... because poor is just defined by making less money, not lacking anything.

Secondly... I'm not even sure how you blame government for people being poor... at least from your political perspective.

That's because the government doesn't represent them currently, they only represent the rich elite and big business (in western countries generally). A lot of western governments have been bought out in some way (either by America or it's TNCs). Me and many people i know don't feel like David Cameron represents us in the slightest. So much for democracy!

And yeah, i know there will always be the poor but there must be a minimum standard. Everyone, deserves cheap modern housing or a flat. Everyone deserves free healthcare and education of a decent standard. They also deserve clean water and a good amount of food. And cheap energy and cheap transport etc.

America may be one of the richest countries in the world but it has some pretty shitty parts that should not even exist in that country. Places like Detroit and poorer suburbs in cities like LA and new york as well as others shouldn't be if people had it so good. The economy has failed all these poorer people even if it weren't there fault. And yeah i know there is a huge difference between a poor family in America and a poor family in Africa but still if America is so rich why do so many people have to go without adequate healthcare or decent food. There just seems to be so much wrong with America at home that some parts of it could easily be in the 3rd world. 

And yes i know i am a socialist and i support big government but what exactly have they done to help working class people recently? All spending has been cut on public services. Energy companies and public transport are being allowed to go up in cost at rates above inflation. They are not helping to bring in investment into the country to improve the aging infrastructure. They are letting people waste their potential and just do nothing. And i know this isn't related but the government spying through the NSA and GCHQ isn't right. I don't like authoritarian acts.   

A) Did you vote for David Cameron?

B) Are you suggesting there are laws that specifically make people poor?  That's the only way the government camn make people poor.

C) Everything you are asking for.... people pretty much already have in the US.  People in the US have access to adequate heathcare and decent food, they just don't make use of it.  Just because you give someone access to something doesn't mean they will actually use it.

The biggest impact the affordable care act is expected to have on Healthcare in the US is to force people who already qualify for government healthcare to actually sign up for it.

This generally becomes obvious when you actually study the statistics on things like healthcare, homelessness and obesity.  The real problem is you can't force people to do things. 

You can't force people to use their foodstamps cards on healthy foods.  Hence the Obesity epidemic among the poor, preferring unhealthy foods that require no effort and taste better.

You can't force the mentally ill and drug addicts to get medical treatment.  The ability to refuse medical treatment being a right in the US.  Which, if you study homeless statistics, pretty much all cases of homelessness that last more then 2-3 months in the US are due to mental illnesses and medical treatment.  Other cases of homeslessness are mostly just due to things like gaps between your old lease and your new one.

Poor people in the US already qualify for healthcare.  The affordable Care act pretty much is just about forcing them to take it, rather then not, get sick and have emergency visits without insurance.    Well that and the "Prexisting conditions" folks... which are actually a very very small minority.

There is two groups of poor people who don't have access to these things in America and are prominitly featured in those statistics.   The biggest?  Illegal Aliens.  Illegal aliens are treated the same as citizens for census purposes... for example they were i believe a little bit over a thrid of the "American's without healthcare".  (Which was something like 1/3rd illegal aliens, 1/4th people who qualify for government healthcare but aren't on it and 1/3rd people well over the poverty line.)

In general, they inflate the numbers used to argue for laws that don't benefit them.   It's another reason such legislation never actually works.  Now if you support welfare applying equally to people who are here illegally, I mean sure. 

The other number?  People who are poor... but aren't actually poor.  For example, in the past I fit the income qualifications for welfare but couldn't receive it for one reason.   While I made almost no money at my job.   I had money previously saved up.  They take wealth into consideration.

So i couldn't qualify for Welfare or government healthcare, housing assitance, or any number of other programs you probably don't even know American's have.

Was this fair?  Well yeah... because I could afford that stuff myself, at least in the short term.  I just didn't want to... i'd rather struggle off what little i made and hold on to my savings... it just makes more sense.

People often bitch about the government not doing anything and government programs not working and complain about corrupt polticians because they don't look at the problems and don't realize the solutions they want and get implemented aren't working because they aren't actually adressing the problems.

What's the quote  "Every complex situation has a simple solution, that's wrong."

In this case, the real complex situation is mostly... free will.

People look to government and quickfix laws because actual solutions are much harder and require sacrifice.  That's a big reason why "minium basic" requirements increase.  Not just because what we have can increase, but so that the bar is high enough that people don't feel guilty... so they can feel better about their own individual selfishness.

A.) I wasn't old enough at the time (i was 15 when he was elected), but i wouldn't vote for him ever. He's a conservative. I'd probably vote for the Green party though.

B.) Well through the use of certain taxes, the poor are made poorer. Taxes like VAT or sales tax hit the poor the hardest. The bedroom tax on public housing in the UK also makes people poorer than they should be. Also, the government has failed to increase minimum wage in line with inflation, so people have alot less expendable income. And, laws that weakened trade unions considerably in the 80's didn't help for working class people.

c.) I know the US has these things. But i guess i just don't like how healthcare in the US is not so accessible for the poor because it is run by private companies who are only after profit. The fact that insurance can be denied to someone with a long term illness is just disgusting. In the US, the technology and medicine is there and it should be there for anyone who needs it instead of being restricted to only those who can pay. I don't think it is too hard to implement. And no one is forced to use it. Their taxes still pay towards it though. But I love the NHS, it has been so useful to me. Especially last year, when i needed a crown for my tooth. It's nice not to have to worry about the cost of healthcare your self. Also, i guess UK healthcare is different then. Everyone, no matter their wealth can use the NHS.

And yeah, i'm not sure if illegals should use it or not. Citizens should get help first though if they choose to accept it.

But, also i strongly believe all education (not just school) should be free. Just because it is so important at the higher levels to get us a decent career. The cost deters some of the best who happened to be poor from going to university as it costs so much.

But yeah, i wouldn't want to live off the state either but it should be there anyway as a safety net. Especially, when people seem to be losing jobs all over the place (mostly from the large private sector).

A) That's my point.  Complaining that the guy you didn't vote and wouldn't of voted for isn't doing what you want is kind of dumb.

B)  Stuff like failing to increase minium wage isn't really making people poorer, again you are mostly complaining about stuff they haven't done.  Not specific measures that specifically make the poor pooer, except whatever a bedroom tax is.  We don't have that in the US.

C)  Your representation of the US Medical system isn't accurate.   You can get medical treatment in the US if you don't have insurance, it just costs  a lot of money.  Nobody is actually barred from treatment... some people to forgo it because they don't want to pay the costs.  By the time you can't afford medical treatment anymore, you qualify for government assitance.

Now I'm not sure about the UK, but in the US pretty much anybody who is very smart will get into a college pretty easy.  State colleges are pretty reasonable and loans are really easy to get.   In the US if anything we have too many people going to college.

Additionally the problem is, you really aren't thinking about the negative effects of college.   If EVERYONE went to college, suddenly everyone has degrees.

Which actually has some problems...

1) Due to supply and demand, average wages drop dramatically.  Suddenly there are 5-6 times the people applying for jobs in these fields.  Companies can and will pay much less... and since there will still be the same number of people to work at McDonalds and they don't care about your degree, low level jobs won't pay more.   Afterall a lot of these jobs are less work and more emoitonally rewarding then a job like McDonalds so put enough people up for those jobs who seem qualfied and they'll be willing to take huge pay cuts.

2) Due to the vast increase in degrees, nepotism, legacies and in general hiring people you know will vastly increase.  There are way more people in the work force now, and the percentage of people who will be awful will increase.   People hire others they know, not so much to help there friends and family, but more so because they already know these people.  Often times they know these people won't be the best, but they also know these people won't be the worst.  They know they can leave them with the keys to the shop and not get robbed.  Employers are hiring people to help with what is their source of income so a feeling a saftey is important.

When increasing the number of applicants, and lets be honest here, the majority of them will be horrible, you increase the risk that those you do deeply interview and/or hire will be terrible.  Hence a stronger look "within.".   Or looking at a workers background, what do their parents do etc.  In an attempt to lower class barriers, you actually increase them.   Even within the same class, as people will be more pressured to join the family buisness because of how much harder it is to get a job as an "outsider".

3)  Additionally because of the above companies will be far more conservative about hiriing, hiring slower and expanding slower, slowing the job market for nice middle class jobs.  Or what were nice middle class jobs anyway.  

4) People will be less happy with their work.

http://businessjournal.gallup.com/content/163469/educated-less-engaged.aspx

And that's just now... think how unhappy all those excess college graduates will be when they're all working at Wal-Mart unable to get jobs because their is a new rise in nepotism.  Or hpw unhappy those lucky enough to get jobs will be... after they realize they are making far less at their jobs then their predecessors did.

Or at least that's one way for it to go.  The other way is that certain colleges become the "elite" colleges, find a way to monetize it, and then hiring only comes from those colleges, making the whole idea moot, except now even more people go to school for 4 year degrees that mean nothing.

Of course that said... the new Obama plan meant to cut down on college aid also seems perilious and set up for disaster.

http://www.npr.org/2013/08/22/214520122/does-the-data-exist-to-make-college-rating-system-work

Some of this article reminds me of my mother telling me about poor kids in Africa when I didn't want to eat or when I wanted something she wouldn't give me.

Reason 7 and 6 are a bit silly but 4 - 1 is good.

Reason five is basically saying that as life in some western developed countries get shittier and people in Greece are on the breadline they must be happy because China and India are doing well - which leads me to think Wong is obviously of Chinese origin.