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Forums - Politics - 7 Reasons the World Looks Worse Than It Really Is

badgenome said:
Kasz216 said:

Well first off... this is David Wong.

He's just some White dude.  It's a Pen Name.

Did you really call someone "just some white dude"? That's just plain wong.

Shh... i'm covering for him because of his side job.



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Kasz216 said:
A) No.  Politics isn't a big debate.  Poltics is attempting to put in the policies that will best help a country and their people... and again, if you didn't vote for the guy you can't claim he's betraying you... because you didn't vote for him.  How is he doing with his actual campaign promises he made for the people who voted for him?

B)  That seems perfectly reasonable to me.  If you are getting free housing from the government, and have a spare bedroom... you really should fill that with some other poor person you know or pay the government some reimbursment.

C)  and I prefer a system like the US where everybody can get the treatment they need, though it costs a bit more for some then others, instead of a situation like the NHS where you have to have local concil approval and people who are older or have other conditions are denied treatment because they don't fit into the preaproved areas... and if you try and pay for it yourself... you are booted from the NHS and can't even get stuff paid that you woud otherwise.

 

The truth is NO healthcare system can actually give everybody every medical treatment they need.  It's too expensive.

When dealing with soemones actually life... it doesn't seems even less fair then the american system to force people to die for being too old or having the wrong condition or needing the wrong ind of srugery. when they've been paying their entire life to get healthcare, and then when there time in line comes up... they get turned down.  

At least in the US system if you don't want to go into debt, you usually didn't spend a ton of money in the first place to not get treated like in the UK.

 

1) That's actually not true.  Research shows that smart and educated people are just as predjudiced as stupid people.  They're just better at hiding it, because they're smart.

http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2013/08/new-study-smart-people-just-as-racist-as-others-they-just-hide-it-better/

3)  You don't need college to fufill the American Dream.  That's just a decent paycheck and a house.  Most people actally do achieve that.  Though our overfocus on college has caused us to lose a lot of the good "non college" jobs.   Which is extremly troubling.

However the only real way to get those jobs back is to change the culture.   Get people more united to buy more local products.

 

4) The vast majority of colleges in the United States aren't for profit... and like was outlined... free educaiton is fine... if your willing to realize that the cost of that free education is that "good jobs" will end up paying much less and be much less available.

 

To me it's not worth the price.  Espiecally when you've got Libraries and the Internet when it comes to just wanting to learn about something.

A.) A prime minister is supposed to represent EVERYONE or a majority in the country and so i can criticise him, it's a supposed democracy. I mean most of these people lead on about 1/3 of the countrie's support because the turnout is so bad. So democratic! And not only that but most western leaders including this one have only done policies in their own interests not that which is best for the country. Leaders in most countries rarely serve who their are meant to serve anymore. But i guess if i was PM i would do things differently to cameron, that's how i see it. But yeah, because we there is a coalition government. There have been many compromises, mostly for the liberals. Who promised free university, which didn't happen! Also, the coalition austerity measures hasn't helped the economy very well (stagnant for 5 years now). They want to do fracking against public approval. They did some tax cuts for the poorest and richest at the same time. They also keep on changing the education system without any idea in how it will affect things (eg introducing more academies, changing exam system). They also seem to want to privatise the NHS which no one wants here. Ok but not great government, although most people especially in the north despise tories.

B.) Except public housing isn't free here. It's actually very expensive now because of the "housing boom" in the last 15 years which massively inflated land prices. Public housing is often subsidised here because housing is not affordable anymore. I mean how can an ordinary person afford £150 or $230 a week just on rent? 

C.) i've never heard of the NHS ever denying someone treatment. The only problems with the NHS is it's waiting lists and it's management.

1.) They are still less likely to join a neo-nazi group like the KKK since they aren't stupid.

3.) I guess the outsourcing of many good manufacturing and service jobs hasn't helped either. 

4.) I though Finland with it's free university was doing alright in it's economy. And i suppose the difference between a library and university, is that at university it is applied towards something.  

 



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the2real4mafol said:
Kasz216 said:
A) No.  Politics isn't a big debate.  Poltics is attempting to put in the policies that will best help a country and their people... and again, if you didn't vote for the guy you can't claim he's betraying you... because you didn't vote for him.  How is he doing with his actual campaign promises he made for the people who voted for him?

B)  That seems perfectly reasonable to me.  If you are getting free housing from the government, and have a spare bedroom... you really should fill that with some other poor person you know or pay the government some reimbursment.

C)  and I prefer a system like the US where everybody can get the treatment they need, though it costs a bit more for some then others, instead of a situation like the NHS where you have to have local concil approval and people who are older or have other conditions are denied treatment because they don't fit into the preaproved areas... and if you try and pay for it yourself... you are booted from the NHS and can't even get stuff paid that you woud otherwise.

 

The truth is NO healthcare system can actually give everybody every medical treatment they need.  It's too expensive.

When dealing with soemones actually life... it doesn't seems even less fair then the american system to force people to die for being too old or having the wrong condition or needing the wrong ind of srugery. when they've been paying their entire life to get healthcare, and then when there time in line comes up... they get turned down.  

At least in the US system if you don't want to go into debt, you usually didn't spend a ton of money in the first place to not get treated like in the UK.

 

1) That's actually not true.  Research shows that smart and educated people are just as predjudiced as stupid people.  They're just better at hiding it, because they're smart.

http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2013/08/new-study-smart-people-just-as-racist-as-others-they-just-hide-it-better/

3)  You don't need college to fufill the American Dream.  That's just a decent paycheck and a house.  Most people actally do achieve that.  Though our overfocus on college has caused us to lose a lot of the good "non college" jobs.   Which is extremly troubling.

However the only real way to get those jobs back is to change the culture.   Get people more united to buy more local products.

 

4) The vast majority of colleges in the United States aren't for profit... and like was outlined... free educaiton is fine... if your willing to realize that the cost of that free education is that "good jobs" will end up paying much less and be much less available.

 

To me it's not worth the price.  Espiecally when you've got Libraries and the Internet when it comes to just wanting to learn about something.

A.) A prime minister is supposed to represent EVERYONE or a majority in the country and so i can criticise him, it's a supposed democracy. I mean most of these people lead on about 1/3 of the countrie's support because the turnout is so bad. So democratic! And not only that but most western leaders including this one have only done policies in their own interests not that which is best for the country. Leaders in most countries rarely serve who their are meant to serve anymore. But i guess if i was PM i would do things differently to cameron, that's how i see it. But yeah, because we there is a coalition government. There have been many compromises, mostly for the liberals. Who promised free university, which didn't happen! Also, the coalition austerity measures hasn't helped the economy very well (stagnant for 5 years now). They want to do fracking against public approval. They did some tax cuts for the poorest and richest at the same time. They also keep on changing the education system without any idea in how it will affect things (eg introducing more academies, changing exam system). They also seem to want to privatise the NHS which no one wants here. Ok but not great government, although most people especially in the north despise tories.

B.) Except public housing isn't free here. It's actually very expensive now because of the "housing boom" in the last 15 years which massively inflated land prices. Public housing is often subsidised here because housing is not affordable anymore. I mean how can an ordinary person afford £150 or $230 a week just on rent? 

C.) i've never heard of the NHS ever denying someone treatment. The only problems with the NHS is it's waiting lists and it's management.

1.) They are still less likely to join a neo-nazi group like the KKK since they aren't stupid.

3.) I guess the outsourcing of many good manufacturing and service jobs hasn't helped either. 

4.) I though Finland with it's free university was doing alright in it's economy. And i suppose the difference between a library and university, is that at university it is applied towards something.  

 

A)  Because he IS representing eveyrone... and helping everyone with HIS polcies, you can't claim he's sold out when he's keeping true to his policies.  Sold out would imply he's doing something he didn't promise to do because he got paid not to.

B)   I'm confused.  By definition all public housing should be subsidized.  I mean.  Public Housing is housing owned by the government.  Why would the government own homes if not to rent it to the poor for cheap to zero money.  

C) Then you haven't been paying attention.  It's pretty common.  Labour made a big deal about it, though it was jut as bad under them

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9706918/50000-denied-treatment-to-save-NHS-cash-claims-Labour.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9127486/Obese-and-smokers-denied-treatment-to-save-money.html

Though you can find tons of invidual stories too if that's your thing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2126379/Sentenced-death-old-The-NHS-denies-life-saving-treatment-elderly-mans-chilling-story-reveals.html

 

Part of why the US system is so expensive is because if an 85 year old has cancer and insurance, the insurance has to pay for the best cancer treatment just to make sure he makes it to 86.  They have to do everything.  While in the UK, that may be seen as wasteful,

 

1)  Which is... you know.  Bad.  It's better to have racists and bigots in plan view, so you know where they stand.  Rather then behind the shadows being able to work their agendas eaisly.

3)  Which was allowed to happen due to the over focus on college.  In the West we put too much emphasis on College.  If you had kids you wanted them to go to college and get a collage job even though many of those jobs were worse then union jobs.  As such, it was easy to manufacturer.   Jobs got outsourced because we no longer valued those jobs... until they were gone... and still don't.   Look at Germany and Japan... and it becomes a bit more clear.

 

4)   Not really.  They do good in Per Capita income... but that's before you take out all the taxes.  I mean shit, their local municipal taxes are around ~20%, plus 29% VAT, + 6 up to like 50%! income tax...

 

 If you look at the average finnish home it becomes sort of apparent.  Really in general, that's something you don't really think about.  The average finnish home is significntly smaller then the average UK Home... which is smaller then the average US home.  (in actual square feet, rooms etc.)



Kasz216 said:

A)  Because he IS representing eveyrone... and helping everyone with HIS polcies, you can't claim he's sold out when he's keeping true to his policies.  Sold out would imply he's doing something he didn't promise to do because he got paid not to.

B)   I'm confused.  By definition all public housing should be subsidized.  I mean.  Public Housing is housing owned by the government.  Why would the government own homes if not to rent it to the poor for cheap to zero money.  

C) Then you haven't been paying attention.  It's pretty common.  Labour made a big deal about it, though it was jut as bad under them

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9706918/50000-denied-treatment-to-save-NHS-cash-claims-Labour.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9127486/Obese-and-smokers-denied-treatment-to-save-money.html

Though you can find tons of invidual stories too if that's your thing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2126379/Sentenced-death-old-The-NHS-denies-life-saving-treatment-elderly-mans-chilling-story-reveals.html

 

Part of why the US system is so expensive is because if an 85 year old has cancer and insurance, the insurance has to pay for the best cancer treatment just to make sure he makes it to 86.  They have to do everything.  While in the UK, that may be seen as wasteful,

 

1)  Which is... you know.  Bad.  It's better to have racists and bigots in plan view, so you know where they stand.  Rather then behind the shadows being able to work their agendas eaisly.

3)  Which was allowed to happen due to the over focus on college.  In the West we put too much emphasis on College.  If you had kids you wanted them to go to college and get a collage job even though many of those jobs were worse then union jobs.  As such, it was easy to manufacturer.   Jobs got outsourced because we no longer valued those jobs... until they were gone... and still don't.   Look at Germany and Japan... and it becomes a bit more clear.

 

4)   Not really.  They do good in Per Capita income... but that's before you take out all the taxes.  I mean shit, their local municipal taxes are around ~20%, plus 29% VAT, + 6 up to like 50%! income tax...

 

 If you look at the average finnish home it becomes sort of apparent.  Really in general, that's something you don't really think about.  The average finnish home is significntly smaller then the average UK Home... which is smaller then the average US home.  (in actual square feet, rooms etc.)

A.) I don't think he is. Only 36% of the voter turnout (65% in 2010) voted Tory. That is alot of people who don't support him, but that's more the electoral systems though than his. But, yeah he has seemingly kept word on the majority of policies he set out 3 years ago, that alone is amazing for any politician. I'm sure striking Syria (which he wants to do) wasn't promised though nor does anyone want yet another war.

B.) I know it makes no sense does it? But to think private renting or a mortgage does often cost more as well. By comparision, housing is very cheap in the US.

C.) This news was all released in 2012, so was likely covered up by the noise of the Olympics and the royal wedding. But, i'm sure it wouldn't of happened if NHS spending wasn't being cut by the government. 

1.) I agree if only corporatists were in plain view too

3.) I never really though about it like that but i guess you are right. And not only that but the governments in germany and japan encourage people to set up factories as they are hugely beneficial to the economy and trade. I don't know but i guess it's that emphasis on university that really changes things although uni in Germany is much cheaper when compared to the UK. But saying, their education system has pushed an alternative to university, for those who really aren't smart enough to go university. 

4.) depending on how you look at it, higher taxes may be good if you get stuff like free healthcare and education in return along with some other stuff. Also, i consider a progressive tax system to be a good thing. Also, VAT is 22% not to different to the 20% in the UK. But yeah if you combine income tax and local tax, it ranges from 25% to 50%, which is pretty fair i think. Nothing, like the 75% tax on 1 million euros or more in France is it?  

Also, the size of houses may be to do with the climate as it gets very cold there. As, open spaces don't keep heat. 



Xbox Series, PS5 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch 2 will outsell the PS5 by 2030

Around the Network
the2real4mafol said:
Kasz216 said:

A)  Because he IS representing eveyrone... and helping everyone with HIS polcies, you can't claim he's sold out when he's keeping true to his policies.  Sold out would imply he's doing something he didn't promise to do because he got paid not to.

B)   I'm confused.  By definition all public housing should be subsidized.  I mean.  Public Housing is housing owned by the government.  Why would the government own homes if not to rent it to the poor for cheap to zero money.  

C) Then you haven't been paying attention.  It's pretty common.  Labour made a big deal about it, though it was jut as bad under them

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9706918/50000-denied-treatment-to-save-NHS-cash-claims-Labour.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9127486/Obese-and-smokers-denied-treatment-to-save-money.html

Though you can find tons of invidual stories too if that's your thing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2126379/Sentenced-death-old-The-NHS-denies-life-saving-treatment-elderly-mans-chilling-story-reveals.html

 

Part of why the US system is so expensive is because if an 85 year old has cancer and insurance, the insurance has to pay for the best cancer treatment just to make sure he makes it to 86.  They have to do everything.  While in the UK, that may be seen as wasteful,

 

1)  Which is... you know.  Bad.  It's better to have racists and bigots in plan view, so you know where they stand.  Rather then behind the shadows being able to work their agendas eaisly.

3)  Which was allowed to happen due to the over focus on college.  In the West we put too much emphasis on College.  If you had kids you wanted them to go to college and get a collage job even though many of those jobs were worse then union jobs.  As such, it was easy to manufacturer.   Jobs got outsourced because we no longer valued those jobs... until they were gone... and still don't.   Look at Germany and Japan... and it becomes a bit more clear.

 

4)   Not really.  They do good in Per Capita income... but that's before you take out all the taxes.  I mean shit, their local municipal taxes are around ~20%, plus 29% VAT, + 6 up to like 50%! income tax...

 

 If you look at the average finnish home it becomes sort of apparent.  Really in general, that's something you don't really think about.  The average finnish home is significntly smaller then the average UK Home... which is smaller then the average US home.  (in actual square feet, rooms etc.)

A.) I don't think he is. Only 36% of the voter turnout (65% in 2010) voted Tory. That is alot of people who don't support him, but that's more the electoral systems though than his. But, yeah he has seemingly kept word on the majority of policies he set out 3 years ago, that alone is amazing for any politician. I'm sure striking Syria (which he wants to do) wasn't promised though nor does anyone want yet another war.

B.) I know it makes no sense does it? But to think private renting or a mortgage does often cost more as well. By comparision, housing is very cheap in the US.

C.) This news was all released in 2012, so was likely covered up by the noise of the Olympics and the royal wedding. But, i'm sure it wouldn't of happened if NHS spending wasn't being cut by the government. 

1.) I agree if only corporatists were in plain view too

3.) I never really though about it like that but i guess you are right. And not only that but the governments in germany and japan encourage people to set up factories as they are hugely beneficial to the economy and trade. I don't know but i guess it's that emphasis on university that really changes things although uni in Germany is much cheaper when compared to the UK. But saying, their education system has pushed an alternative to university, for those who really aren't smart enough to go university. 

4.) depending on how you look at it, higher taxes may be good if you get stuff like free healthcare and education in return along with some other stuff. Also, i consider a progressive tax system to be a good thing. Also, VAT is 22% not to different to the 20% in the UK. But yeah if you combine income tax and local tax, it ranges from 25% to 50%, which is pretty fair i think. Nothing, like the 75% tax on 1 million euros or more in France is it?  

Also, the size of houses may be to do with the climate as it gets very cold there. As, open spaces don't keep heat. 


A) He got a majority of the vote, and he's trying to do what's best for the country, via the polcies he laid out.  It's really that simple, those who can't even make the effort to vote REALLY have no right to complain.

C)  Nah, it all happened under labor as well.  I know because i pointed out the fact that this shit happens well before Obamacare passed.   It's impossible to give every medical treatment to everybody who needs it without bankrupting the country.   At some point the government always draws a line in the sand.  Why do you think they had to put in an anti-age law discrimination in the first place?

It's because Old people were being denied treatment under NHS.   Which they still are since now the doctors just say "It's not that your father is 88, it's that he has the body of an 88 year old! "

 

1)That sort of proves my point.  Nobody who is a copratist is dumb.  Because to be a corpratist you have to be in a corproation or a poltician.  Which means you need a pretty high level of intellegence.

 

4)   See here's the thing.  It doesn't work both ways.  When you have a progressive tax system the majority of people won't get back their taxes worth because it goes to the people who don't pay any taxes (or pay less...  Which in of itself is inefficent as hell.  Since just don't have those people pay taxes.)

 

As for the Finnish taxes, actually looking at it, they greatly lowered their taxes  Their top tax bracket is 30%.  Last I looked it was 50%.   They must of went with a conservative stimulus program.

Looking at all the taxes though it's about 20% (Local) 6-30% (Wage) 1.19% (Healthcare) .82 (healthcare) 4.7 (Pension) 0.6 (Unemployment).



Now lets apply this.

In 2008, Per capita PPP for finland was $38,230 in international dollars   (Compaired to around ~$50,000 in America/$35,800 in the UK)

 

Now, 38,230 is about 28,686 Euros.  That's pre taxes.

 

Now that's 27.31% in taxes outside income tax, which is more complicated then a simple percentage... but to save the complicated breakdown by bracket it goes like this,

2569.59    Paid in the first bracket 15,600–23,200  For an rate here of  33.81% of your income.

For the rest of it 5486, your in the 17.5 Tax bracket.  Meaning your paying 44.81%

So you are paying 2458.28 on that.

So your 28,686 euros is reduced to 23,658.

 

Not counting the VAT.  If you save nothing, that's a 24% right off the top of that... and the VAT is MUCH more perlious then you realize.

Also not counting things like property taxes... but hey.