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Forums - Sony Discussion - Naughty Dog: Ellie’s Popularity in The Last of Us “Says a lot About Whether Games can Sell With a Female Protagonist” *spoilers*

o_O.Q on 06 August 2013
okr said:
It's interesting to see how gaming "journalists", fans of the game and now even the developer want the rest of the world make believe that TLOU is such a critical and commercial success due to minor reasons (usually the story is named, in this case it's the "hiding" of the female protagonist - how pathetic is that) instead of admitting that the true and simple selling point for TLOU is the same as for most others of those many mid-level and few high-level sales successes on Sony and MS consoles: violence.


even if that were true thats better imo than games selling because the company behind them constantly reuses the same characters over and over again



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S.T.A.G.E. on 06 August 2013
RenCutypoison said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
RenCutypoison said:


They are all hated by the fanbase. Final Fantasy 13 is the first Final Fantasy in years where people have had backlash towards the whole cast, to the point where the games sales reflected the audiences lack of amusement in sequels. Based on character development in any book, technically it is Hope who becomes to leader if not eventually the most powerful as he learns to mature. Its not about whether I like him or not. If you paid attention to the first game, he's the only character with true character development throughout the duration of the game. In the beginning of the game he's just a child with a boomerang, but the end of the game he has all these powers and definitely becomes a mage-like character that people depend upon.

I meant hated by FFXIII's fanbase.

And no, he is not the only one.

Lightning becomes a human being, forgive and learns to like her sister's boyfriend. Snow stop being a child and grow up. Vanille learns how to stand on her feet without Fang. Fang stop feeling stupiditly culprit. And I don't remember sazh developpement. But he is funny at least.


Learning to like a sisters boyfriend isnt character development. Lightening was a female protagonist that was forced upon people. They did not properly think through her role. Snow was a jackass plain and simple. He's the "I want to be a superhero look at me go!" type without any natural likeability in the world, place in the typical plastic positioning. He was my most hated character. Its like they took a ken doll, kept the attitude, yet made him scruffy. Lightening was always an aggressor in the game, but it felt like she was being forced upon me. She did not strike me as the mysterious type, nor the badass they made her out to be. If this was real life she probably would've been knocked down quite easily, but this is based off of an anime, so lets humor it for a second. Hope was a weakling in the beginning of the game but ends up being one of the most trustworthy and powerful characters by the end.



RenCutypoison on 06 August 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:


Learning to like a sisters boyfriend isnt character development. Lightening was a female protagonist that was forced upon people. They did not properly think through her role. Snow was a jackass plain and simple. He's the "I want to be a superhero look at me go!" type without any natural likeability in the world, place in the typical plastic positioning. He was my most hated character. Its like they took a ken doll, kept the attitude, yet made him scruffy. Lightening was always an aggressor in the game, but it felt like she was being forced upon me. She did not strike me as the mysterious type, nor the badass they made her out to be. If this was real life she probably would've been knocked down quite easily, but this is based off of an anime, so lets humor it for a second. Hope was a weakling in the beginning of the game but ends up being one of the most trustworthy and powerful characters by the end.

Coming to like your sister's boyfriend is hard. I know it, I have 6 sisters.

It's real, at least. Lightning wasn't a failed character to me, and I do hate the mysterious type. Cloud was more a failure to me 

 

Spoiler FFVII

 

 

Seriously

 

 

"I took my mentor's identity because I suck" made him the least hero of all heroes' history. He's just a weakling pretending to be someone else, and, BTW, If you do are a weakling that pretend to be a veteran IRL, you get beaten up by real veterans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler end

 

 

 

 

 

And I liked Snow, that took the typical wannabe hero and turned it into a realistic character, with a realistic developpement. No, he is not as likeable as badasses. But at least is he human.



S.T.A.G.E. on 06 August 2013
RenCutypoison said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


Learning to like a sisters boyfriend isnt character development. Lightening was a female protagonist that was forced upon people. They did not properly think through her role. Snow was a jackass plain and simple. He's the "I want to be a superhero look at me go!" type without any natural likeability in the world, place in the typical plastic positioning. He was my most hated character. Its like they took a ken doll, kept the attitude, yet made him scruffy. Lightening was always an aggressor in the game, but it felt like she was being forced upon me. She did not strike me as the mysterious type, nor the badass they made her out to be. If this was real life she probably would've been knocked down quite easily, but this is based off of an anime, so lets humor it for a second. Hope was a weakling in the beginning of the game but ends up being one of the most trustworthy and powerful characters by the end.

Coming to like your sister's boyfriend is hard. I know it, I have 6 sisters.

It's real, at least. Lightning wasn't a failed character to me, and I do hate the mysterious type. Cloud was more a failure to me 

 

Spoiler FFVII

 

 

Seriously

 

 

"I took my mentor's identity because I suck" made him the least hero of all heroes' history. He's just a weakling pretending to be someone else, and, BTW, If you do are a weakling that pretend to be a veteran IRL, you get beaten up by real veterans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler end

 

 

 

 

 

And I liked Snow, that took the typical wannabe hero and turned it into a realistic character, with a realistic developpement. No, he is not as likeable as badasses. But at least is he human.


If you watch the Final Fantasy move, played Crisis core and played VII eventually you understand Zack feels Cloud is the best of him and pretty  much Zack is looking down on him through it all. Zack was better but Cloud learns to be something great when at first he was just worthless. Snow had no development...do you know what character development is?



RenCutypoison on 06 August 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:


If you watch the Final Fantasy move, played Crisis core and played VII eventually you understand Zack feels Cloud is the best of him and pretty  much Zack is looking down on him through it all. Zack was better but Cloud learns to be something great when at first he was just worthless. Snow had no development...do you know what character development is?


Oh come on, don't start with personal attack, I just defend my point of view.

 

And yeah, I think Snow start as a kid and finish as an adult (and then, there was FFXIII-2 that killed it)

And of course you preferred Hope developpement, he has the typical final fantasy protagonist developpement, so the fans are not in unknow territory.

And yeah, Cloud growns up, I just don't like the developpment and amnesiac characters, and the problem to me is that he starts wothless.

Just like Hope being a total ass in his mom's skirt for the 80% of the game. Snow, even if he is stupid and clumsy, tries to be useful and respect is comrades.



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crissindahouse on 06 August 2013

well, i don't think it was ever the question if playing a girl or boy for a short time in a game could change how many people buy a game or how they like it. and "caring" for someone works better with a female character. same with the walking dead and bioshock infinite.

the question is if the same amount of people would buy the last of us if the main character would be female.

i think it really depends from game to game. a jrpg can live with a female main character and probably sell the same amount but i really think that the last of us would sell less if joel would be female and the kid a boy or if you would play a woman in bioshock infinite and you would have a guy with you.



S.T.A.G.E. on 06 August 2013
RenCutypoison said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


If you watch the Final Fantasy move, played Crisis core and played VII eventually you understand Zack feels Cloud is the best of him and pretty  much Zack is looking down on him through it all. Zack was better but Cloud learns to be something great when at first he was just worthless. Snow had no development...do you know what character development is?


Oh come on, don't start with personal attack, I just defend my point of view.

 

And yeah, I think Snow start as a kid and finish as an adult (and then, there was FFXIII-2 that killed it)

And of course you preferred Hope developpement, he has the typical final fantasy protagonist developpement, so the fans are not in unknow territory.

And yeah, Cloud growns up, I just don't like the developpment and amnesiac characters, and the problem to me is that he starts wothless.

Just like Hope being a total ass in his mom's skirt for the 80% of the game. Snow, even if he is stupid and clumsy, tries to be useful and respect is comrades.


Im not personally attacking you, i'm just asking if you know what character development is. I don't prefer Hope, I hated his character (all of them except for Fang, but Snow the most for obvious reasons)....but hes the only character in that miserable game who had character development. I am not a fan of hope and hope is ridiculous soap opera-like name for a character such as he. Thats the point of character development, growth becoming something different for better or worse than what you were from the start and eventually taking charge of your life and possibly that of others. It is a coming of age in finding out who you are or were and rise above it. Essentially yes...the only person in the game who fits this bill 100%.  Generally its an allegory for life the way character development is used.

I never stated my favorite character in that miserable game. My Favorite character was Fang. She was a real badass...not Lightening. That is the definition of a female badass. I wouldnt say shes the most well through out character though, but it was believable that she was a badass.



RenCutypoison on 06 August 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:
RenCutypoison said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


If you watch the Final Fantasy move, played Crisis core and played VII eventually you understand Zack feels Cloud is the best of him and pretty  much Zack is looking down on him through it all. Zack was better but Cloud learns to be something great when at first he was just worthless. Snow had no development...do you know what character development is?


Oh come on, don't start with personal attack, I just defend my point of view.

 

And yeah, I think Snow start as a kid and finish as an adult (and then, there was FFXIII-2 that killed it)

And of course you preferred Hope developpement, he has the typical final fantasy protagonist developpement, so the fans are not in unknow territory.

And yeah, Cloud growns up, I just don't like the developpment and amnesiac characters, and the problem to me is that he starts wothless.

Just like Hope being a total ass in his mom's skirt for the 80% of the game. Snow, even if he is stupid and clumsy, tries to be useful and respect is comrades.


Im not personally attacking you, i'm just asking if you know what character development is. I don't prefer Hope, I hated his character (all of them except for Fang, but Snow the most for obvious reasons)....but hes the only character in that miserable game who had character development. I am not a fan of hope and hope is ridiculous soap opera-like name for a character such as he. Thats the point of character development, growth becoming something different for better or worse than what you were from the start and eventually taking charge of your life and possibly that of others. It is a coming of age in finding out who you are or were and rise above it. Essentially yes...the only person in the game who fits this bill 100%.  Generally its an allegory for life the way character development is used.

I never stated my favorite character in that miserable game. My Favorite character was Fang. She was a real badass...not Lightening. That is the definition of a female badass. I wouldnt say shes the most well through out character though, but it was believable that she was a badass.


If you think the game is miserable but still tought on the story and character developpement, the game devs did their job =p

The point of art being making people think.



S.T.A.G.E. on 06 August 2013
RenCutypoison said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


Im not personally attacking you, i'm just asking if you know what character development is. I don't prefer Hope, I hated his character (all of them except for Fang, but Snow the most for obvious reasons)....but hes the only character in that miserable game who had character development. I am not a fan of hope and hope is ridiculous soap opera-like name for a character such as he. Thats the point of character development, growth becoming something different for better or worse than what you were from the start and eventually taking charge of your life and possibly that of others. It is a coming of age in finding out who you are or were and rise above it. Essentially yes...the only person in the game who fits this bill 100%.  Generally its an allegory for life the way character development is used.

I never stated my favorite character in that miserable game. My Favorite character was Fang. She was a real badass...not Lightening. That is the definition of a female badass. I wouldnt say shes the most well through out character though, but it was believable that she was a badass.


If you think the game is miserable but still tought on the story and character developpement, the game devs did their job =p

The point of art being making people think.


I have a certification in script writing. I'm always thinking about character development when I read a book, watch a movie or play a game unless its a Nintendo title. That and I am always thinking of a premise for a book and character development is key, or else the point of having a protagonist is really pointless.



RenCutypoison on 06 August 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:
RenCutypoison said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


Im not personally attacking you, i'm just asking if you know what character development is. I don't prefer Hope, I hated his character (all of them except for Fang, but Snow the most for obvious reasons)....but hes the only character in that miserable game who had character development. I am not a fan of hope and hope is ridiculous soap opera-like name for a character such as he. Thats the point of character development, growth becoming something different for better or worse than what you were from the start and eventually taking charge of your life and possibly that of others. It is a coming of age in finding out who you are or were and rise above it. Essentially yes...the only person in the game who fits this bill 100%.  Generally its an allegory for life the way character development is used.

I never stated my favorite character in that miserable game. My Favorite character was Fang. She was a real badass...not Lightening. That is the definition of a female badass. I wouldnt say shes the most well through out character though, but it was believable that she was a badass.


If you think the game is miserable but still tought on the story and character developpement, the game devs did their job =p

The point of art being making people think.


I have a certification in script writing. I'm always thinking about character development when I read a book, watch a movie or play a game unless its a Nintendo title.


Cool diploma

Good thing for you. But I actually liked the game, and am not ashamed of it =p