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Forums - General Discussion - A Muslim writes about Jesus - Is This The Most Embarrassing Interview Fox News Has Ever Done?

happydolphin said:
Adinnieken said:

This.

People read the bible believing it is a factual account.  It isn't.  The Great Flood, for example, didn't happen.  It's a story that is common in the middle-eastern region and has its origins in Mesopotamia long before even biblical scholars can attribute it to happening in the biblical time-line.

There are historical facts in the bible, but the bible isn't a true historical document.

The fact that you are lumping the bible in one big catch-phrase goes to show how much you know about it.

The book is written by various authors, in many different languages under various litterary types. The gospel accounts themselves are of varying degrees of historical method.

It just goes to show that, no matter what information you present, the bible will always be seen as material that must prove itself, when it really proves itself. I mean, even if the flood were untrue (which I seriously doubt), the gospels hold each other up together very well even historically speaking.

Answer honestly: have you actually read the bible? The amount of contradiction within it is staggering. Not to mention the contradictions of the bible with reality and history.



           

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Adinnieken said:
Mr Khan said:
happydolphin said:
I know this thread is about bad journalism, but after having watched the daily show interview posted by seth, it goes to show how off you can be when you reject the bible's account...

Jesus didn't defy the roman empire, he defied the Jewish stranglehold on the Judaic tradition. He was crucified as an outlaw though he never defied the state, that's because he was crucified for reason of Jewish persecution, not roman hostility...

When a scholar of two decades can't appreciate that subtle difference, you know the world is going to shit.

Having not read Dr. Aslan's account, I would suggest that it is in the interests of the Bible Writers to present an account that painted the Jewish establishment in something of a bad light as Christianity was the new claimant to the Abrahamic tradition, and at the same time to at least paint a neutral picture of the Romans (lest the Empire drop the hammer on the religion in its infancy, and so that Roman citizens would be less inclined to reject the Christian message for patriotic reasons).

This.

People read the bible believing it is a factual account.  It isn't.  The Great Flood, for example, didn't happen.  It's a story that is common in the middle-eastern region and has its origins in Mesopotamia long before even biblical scholars can attribute it to happening in the biblical time-line.

There are historical facts in the bible, but the bible isn't a true historical document.


Actually scientific data does point to a world wide flood as it has been documented that so far under the soil on any given part of the planet checked so far that there are signs of water and lifeforms only present in water.

While I wont disgree everything in the bible is not fact, you dont really know enough to make those claims as your one and only example is completely wrong.

Most of the stories in the Bible predate the Bible by a good bit. It was not a book written at one time but over hundreds, thousands of years.

Considering the Bible acurately dipics how the world and universe begain. i think its a bit silly to dismiss it as complete fiction or that the people in it are real and a part of history but the events must be fake

God said let their be light and bam.. We now call that the big bang.

The Earth was void and without form.. We know the Earth formed over billions of years as dust particles combined together to make a spot that once looked void and formed a planet.

We know there was a world flood but that story actually predates Christianity and many other religions by a few thousand years.

A man having heard that there was once a man that God made live forever went in search of the man to see if it was true. After a long travel he finally met the man that was immortal and he asked him what he did to become immortal.He explained that the creator came to him and tasked him with creating a vessel to help arry his creatures in as a great flood was coming. However this man would not be able to buid it within his lifetime so the creatortold him that to ensure it was built the man would no longer die.



happydolphin said:
Mr Khan said:

Having not read Dr. Aslan's account, I would suggest that it is in the interests of the Bible Writers to present an account that painted the Jewish establishment in something of a bad light as Christianity was the new claimant to the Abrahamic tradition, and at the same time to at least paint a neutral picture of the Romans (lest the Empire drop the hammer on the religion in its infancy, and so that Roman citizens would be less inclined to reject the Christian message for patriotic reasons).

The only in-depth account of the life of Christ is in the gospels. I don't see what source he could use to justify that it is telling an untrue story, other than by suspicion (like the one you present). It's weak at best, and the story told by the gospels actually make perfect sense in light of the old testament and the purpose Jesus (as messiah) was meant to fulfill, as a human.

Looking at the old testament prophecies, and contrasting them with the Jewish political powers of Jesus' time, it was a time-bomb waiting to blow. We don't even need the gospels really to see that the messiah was going to pose a serious problem to the politics of that age.

Isaiah 9:6 (from the same book used by the jews)

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Jesus was crucified for blasphemy, on pretext of insurrection.

No, the gospels contradict themselves. A lot. They also contradict a lot of the scrolls that didn't make it into the bible; and there's a lot of inter-contradiction within those manuscripts. The upshot is, the bible simply cannot be true.



           

MDMAlliance said:
ListerOfSmeg said:
NintendoPie said:
happydolphin said:
With a name like Aslan, I'm surprised he didn't eat her head off.

He might as well have. After all, he does have a PhD in History of Religions, you know.

Edit: Also, Aslan is a cool name. I feel like I heard it from somewhere before, though...


A PhD is meaningless honestly.It doesnt make him 100% correct.

 He never claims to be 100% correct.

A degree means you learned the facts,it doesnt mean your opinion is valid.

 A lot of the things argued here are not opinions, but actually highly documented history. 

I know people with scientific degrees that say some really stupid things.

  Which is exactly why you see those scholars making stupid criticisms to his book.

Our scholars also lack a complete history of the world to fully know the history of religion.

And if you paid any attention to what he says,  he says that it is debatable. 

 We know of religious stories that date back 15k years. I doubt his knowledge or anyone else today or any library in the world contains everything about every religion because we just dont have the information.

Once again, never makes that claim.

Not that i have any issue with him writting a book as long as his religion didnt get in the way of reporting the facts,but a degree does not mean you instantly win any argument and to suggest that anyone with a degree knows what they are talking about shows a serious lack of understanding about what a degree is and how you actually get one or dont get one.  

He doesn't make that argument, he consistently talks about his PhD to prove that him being Muslim has nothing to do with what is in his book, it is the fact that he studies the topic and have a lot of background in it, so he can talk about it from a much more objective point of view than someone who simply talks from what they have personally experienced.





Dude really? You are totally off. I am not disagree with the author of the article. I am telling someone who is pointing out he has a degree so must be right that that is not the case. Your defending him like I am suggesting he said those things and that is not the case at all.



ListerOfSmeg said:


Actually scientific data does point to a world wide flood as it has been documented that so far under the soil on any given part of the planet checked so far that there are signs of water and lifeforms only present in water.

While I wont disgree everything in the bible is not fact, you dont really know enough to make those claims as your one and only example is completely wrong.

Most of the stories in the Bible predate the Bible by a good bit. It was not a book written at one time but over hundreds, thousands of years.

Considering the Bible acurately dipics how the world and universe begain. i think its a bit silly to dismiss it as complete fiction or that the people in it are real and a part of history but the events must be fake
Absolutely no science says the Bible accurately depicts how the world and universe began.

God said let their be light and bam.. We now call that the big bang. 
... Are you trolling? Because that makes no sense.

The Earth was void and without form.. We know the Earth formed over billions of years as dust particles combined together to make a spot that once looked void and formed a planet.
The Bible says the Universe was made in just a couple of days.  Including Earth as we know it and life as we know it.

We know there was a world flood but that story actually predates Christianity and many other religions by a few thousand years.

A man having heard that there was once a man that God made live forever went in search of the man to see if it was true. After a long travel he finally met the man that was immortal and he asked him what he did to become immortal.He explained that the creator came to him and tasked him with creating a vessel to help arry his creatures in as a great flood was coming. However this man would not be able to buid it within his lifetime so the creatortold him that to ensure it was built the man would no longer die.
MAKES NO SENSE


You know, almost every single one of your comments you have ever made seemed ridiculous.  I'm not even sure if you're being serious.



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ultima said:
happydolphin said:
Mr Khan said:

Having not read Dr. Aslan's account, I would suggest that it is in the interests of the Bible Writers to present an account that painted the Jewish establishment in something of a bad light as Christianity was the new claimant to the Abrahamic tradition, and at the same time to at least paint a neutral picture of the Romans (lest the Empire drop the hammer on the religion in its infancy, and so that Roman citizens would be less inclined to reject the Christian message for patriotic reasons).

The only in-depth account of the life of Christ is in the gospels. I don't see what source he could use to justify that it is telling an untrue story, other than by suspicion (like the one you present). It's weak at best, and the story told by the gospels actually make perfect sense in light of the old testament and the purpose Jesus (as messiah) was meant to fulfill, as a human.

Looking at the old testament prophecies, and contrasting them with the Jewish political powers of Jesus' time, it was a time-bomb waiting to blow. We don't even need the gospels really to see that the messiah was going to pose a serious problem to the politics of that age.

Isaiah 9:6 (from the same book used by the jews)

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Jesus was crucified for blasphemy, on pretext of insurrection.

No, the gospels contradict themselves. A lot. They also contradict a lot of the scrolls that didn't make it into the bible; and there's a lot of inter-contradiction within those manuscripts. The upshot is, the bible simply cannot be true.

Because it was written by different people with different opinions in different ages it simply cant be true.. Thats not only a silly reasoning but it shows a complete lack of understanding on how society can change. My God dude you are on an internet forum where few people if ever agree 100%.

I guess in 1000 years Sony couldnt have ever existed because not everyone has the exact same opinion about them....



The anchor is so misinformed, ignorant and asks such dumb questions.



ListerOfSmeg said:
Adinnieken said:
Mr Khan said:
happydolphin said:
I know this thread is about bad journalism, but after having watched the daily show interview posted by seth, it goes to show how off you can be when you reject the bible's account...

Jesus didn't defy the roman empire, he defied the Jewish stranglehold on the Judaic tradition. He was crucified as an outlaw though he never defied the state, that's because he was crucified for reason of Jewish persecution, not roman hostility...

When a scholar of two decades can't appreciate that subtle difference, you know the world is going to shit.

Having not read Dr. Aslan's account, I would suggest that it is in the interests of the Bible Writers to present an account that painted the Jewish establishment in something of a bad light as Christianity was the new claimant to the Abrahamic tradition, and at the same time to at least paint a neutral picture of the Romans (lest the Empire drop the hammer on the religion in its infancy, and so that Roman citizens would be less inclined to reject the Christian message for patriotic reasons).

This.

People read the bible believing it is a factual account.  It isn't.  The Great Flood, for example, didn't happen.  It's a story that is common in the middle-eastern region and has its origins in Mesopotamia long before even biblical scholars can attribute it to happening in the biblical time-line.

There are historical facts in the bible, but the bible isn't a true historical document.


Actually scientific data does point to a world wide flood as it has been documented that so far under the soil on any given part of the planet checked so far that there are signs of water and lifeforms only present in water.

While I wont disgree everything in the bible is not fact, you dont really know enough to make those claims as your one and only example is completely wrong.

Most of the stories in the Bible predate the Bible by a good bit. It was not a book written at one time but over hundreds, thousands of years.

Considering the Bible acurately dipics how the world and universe begain. i think its a bit silly to dismiss it as complete fiction or that the people in it are real and a part of history but the events must be fake

God said let their be light and bam.. We now call that the big bang.

The Earth was void and without form.. We know the Earth formed over billions of years as dust particles combined together to make a spot that once looked void and formed a planet.

We know there was a world flood but that story actually predates Christianity and many other religions by a few thousand years.

A man having heard that there was once a man that God made live forever went in search of the man to see if it was true. After a long travel he finally met the man that was immortal and he asked him what he did to become immortal.He explained that the creator came to him and tasked him with creating a vessel to help arry his creatures in as a great flood was coming. However this man would not be able to buid it within his lifetime so the creatortold him that to ensure it was built the man would no longer die.

Honestly, you could use allegories and metaphors to back up any kind of story, ever. So what is the use of the bible, when you have to constantly change the forms of its stories to make it consistent with reality and science? Besides, 7 days after the big bang, there weren't even any stars present, let alone the earth; hence, there weren't even the most primitive lifeforms present, let alone humans. Or does day in that context stand for something?

Please provide me with scientific evidence (by this I mean a credible source) that the great flood did occur.

At bolded: what the hell is this? Is this supposed to be a true story? If yes, then I'd like to know where you found this out. Also, the bible clearly states that early humans lived for 100's of years. Also, the bible clearly states that Noah died at the tender age of 950 years old.



           

MDMAlliance said:
ListerOfSmeg said:


Actually scientific data does point to a world wide flood as it has been documented that so far under the soil on any given part of the planet checked so far that there are signs of water and lifeforms only present in water.

While I wont disgree everything in the bible is not fact, you dont really know enough to make those claims as your one and only example is completely wrong.

Most of the stories in the Bible predate the Bible by a good bit. It was not a book written at one time but over hundreds, thousands of years.

Considering the Bible acurately dipics how the world and universe begain. i think its a bit silly to dismiss it as complete fiction or that the people in it are real and a part of history but the events must be fake
Absolutely no science says the Bible accurately depicts how the world and universe began.

God said let their be light and bam.. We now call that the big bang. 
... Are you trolling? Because that makes no sense.

The Earth was void and without form.. We know the Earth formed over billions of years as dust particles combined together to make a spot that once looked void and formed a planet.
The Bible says the Universe was made in just a couple of days.  Including Earth as we know it and life as we know it.

We know there was a world flood but that story actually predates Christianity and many other religions by a few thousand years.

A man having heard that there was once a man that God made live forever went in search of the man to see if it was true. After a long travel he finally met the man that was immortal and he asked him what he did to become immortal.He explained that the creator came to him and tasked him with creating a vessel to help arry his creatures in as a great flood was coming. However this man would not be able to buid it within his lifetime so the creatortold him that to ensure it was built the man would no longer die.
MAKES NO SENSE


You know, almost every single one of your comments you have ever made seemed ridiculous.  I'm not even sure if you're being serious.


Am an thousands of years ago with limited understanding was given a dream. In that dream he saw the Earth form, and life being. Did it ever accure to you that a creator with half a brain would show him all this in a time lapse style dream or make him dream for 7 billion years to see something he wont even comprehend most of...

 

See you lack vision. You cant think outside the box. YOu are limting the idea of a creature to the limits of human beings.
If you want to call people stupid or suggest their claims are untrue whatever, at least have some proof to back it up. You cannot. we all know the bible wasnt written by God but by people with limited understanding of science or the universe.

 AS if someone from 2000 years ago or more had the mental capacity to comprehend billions of years...LOL keep being convinced you got all the answers... Its just going to be funny when you find out how completely wrong you are and how little you actually know..

Wont be responding again to you. So please dont bother commenting back.

You have nothing but insults to offer any way and its pointless to argue with a child convinced of their own superiority when they actually have zero knowledge or understand of the subject



Why the fuck would it matter what his religion is? You don't have to be a "believer" of something to study it and write about it. Hell, just read his book to see if you disagree or not. Not like its absolute fact by any author as that entire historical period is essentially pre-history and up to a lot of guess work.