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Forums - General Discussion - A Muslim writes about Jesus - Is This The Most Embarrassing Interview Fox News Has Ever Done?

MDMAlliance said:
ListerOfSmeg said:
MDMAlliance said:
ListerOfSmeg said:


Actually scientific data does point to a world wide flood as it has been documented that so far under the soil on any given part of the planet checked so far that there are signs of water and lifeforms only present in water.

While I wont disgree everything in the bible is not fact, you dont really know enough to make those claims as your one and only example is completely wrong.

Most of the stories in the Bible predate the Bible by a good bit. It was not a book written at one time but over hundreds, thousands of years.

Considering the Bible acurately dipics how the world and universe begain. i think its a bit silly to dismiss it as complete fiction or that the people in it are real and a part of history but the events must be fake
Absolutely no science says the Bible accurately depicts how the world and universe began.

God said let their be light and bam.. We now call that the big bang. 
... Are you trolling? Because that makes no sense.

The Earth was void and without form.. We know the Earth formed over billions of years as dust particles combined together to make a spot that once looked void and formed a planet.
The Bible says the Universe was made in just a couple of days.  Including Earth as we know it and life as we know it.

We know there was a world flood but that story actually predates Christianity and many other religions by a few thousand years.

A man having heard that there was once a man that God made live forever went in search of the man to see if it was true. After a long travel he finally met the man that was immortal and he asked him what he did to become immortal.He explained that the creator came to him and tasked him with creating a vessel to help arry his creatures in as a great flood was coming. However this man would not be able to buid it within his lifetime so the creatortold him that to ensure it was built the man would no longer die.
MAKES NO SENSE


You know, almost every single one of your comments you have ever made seemed ridiculous.  I'm not even sure if you're being serious.


Am an thousands of years ago with limited understanding was given a dream. In that dream he saw the Earth form, and life being. Did it ever accure to you that a creator with half a brain would show him all this in a time lapse style dream or make him dream for 7 billion years to see something he wont even comprehend most of...

 

See you lack vision. You cant think outside the box. YOu are limting the idea of a creature to the limits of human beings.
If you want to call people stupid or suggest their claims are untrue whatever, at least have some proof to back it up. You cannot. we all know the bible wasnt written by God but by people with limited understanding of science or the universe.

 AS if someone from 2000 years ago or more had the mental capacity to comprehend billions of years...LOL keep being convinced you got all the answers... Its just going to be funny when you find out how completely wrong you are and how little you actually know..

Wont be responding again to you. So please dont bother commenting back.

You have nothing but insults to offer any way and its pointless to argue with a child convinced of their own superiority when they actually have zero knowledge or understand of the subject


You must be trolling. The ONLY insult I threw your way was "are you trolling?" 

You can't ask me for proof when what you want proof of is me pretty much saying that you don't have proof.  It simply doesn't make sense to ask for proof of proof.

Honestly, your grammar and spelling is bad enough for me to not even be able to fully understand what you are even trying to say.  You are arguing against points I didn't make.

edit: I should point out the "proof of proof" comment means that I was pretty much saying there isn't proof and ListerofSmeg is asking I use proof.  That doesn't make sense.

You've been on this site longer than I have, so I think you should have realized by this point that smeg is not to be taken seriously. He's either a very dedicated troll, or so stubborn that convincing him of anything, regardless of how obvious, is a waste of time.



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DaRev said:
ultima said:
happydolphin said:
ultima said:

So your argument is: "JUST LOOK! IT'S OBVIOUS!" when the words on the page clearly say the opposite. You do know that in Jewish tradition an adoptee is considered a full family member, and would be included in the family tree, right?

So on one hand we have two distinct lineages for Joseph and choose to consider it an adoption, while on the other hand we can interpret it as him being the in-law.

For some reason you insist on considering it an adoption and the genealogies a contradiction.

Whereas using the in-law interpretation, which makes much more sense given the importance of Mary as the virgin mother of Christ and hence the importance of a genealogy on her side, we get a matching picture.

I mean the answer is really obvious. I'm sorry. It's just not a contradiction at all. On one end it's Joseph's true lineage, on the other it's Mary's. Simple shit.

It's more like this: on one hand we have the words of the book, on the other your explanation that is clearly not conforming with the words of the book. Which do we take? I'm sorry, if you're allowed to change wording at will, then you can make anything seem plausible. I brought up the adoption tradition because you made it seem like Joseph would've been a stranger to Jesus, and Joseph's lineage would not transfer down to Jesus; this is simply false by Jewish tradition.

Dude, seriously, what is wrong with you? Happydolphin already explained the differing accounts in Matthew and Luke, in that they give account for Jesus' TWO earthly parents. TWO parents hence TWO generation lines, that lead back to David, as prophesy predicted.

Moreover, and this might be the 3rd time I'm saying this inn this thread, Matthew and Luke were wrttien with two different audiences in mind. Matthew was written with the Jewish reader in mind so it naturally accounted for Joseph's family tree. Luke on the other was written for a Roman (or maybe Greeks, I can't remember) so it listed the Mother, Mary's family. Also, Luke was more focused on FACTS as oppsed to TRADITION, and thus if Jesus' father was REALLY some man in the sky then the only FACT was that MARY was his mother so it is her family that was important for LUKE's (as oppsed to Matthew's) readers. And I'm not just talking shit, as Luke 1:1-4 below, clearly tells you that Luke was gathering factual EVIDENCE from EYEWITNESS to present those factual accounts to Theophilus, who I assume was Roman dignitary:

Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,

Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

 

You haven't read my answers to Happydolphin, or there's something clearly wrong with you. Here, let me summarize. Mary isn't mentioned anywhere in that chapter of Luke. In fact, it clearly states that Jesus, was (as supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, etc. (paraphrased KJV). Your explanation is clearly not consistent with the words of the book.

Also, your assumption that Theophilus was a Roman (or Greek) dignitary is unbacked. Hence, your different audience argument is not backed up by anything. Your facts versus tradition argument is also very weak. So what, Matthew's account of Jesus's life is not factual, but just a description of some tradition?

Also, I wrote this out especially for you: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5551747.



           

DucksUnlimited said:
MDMAlliance said:


You must be trolling. The ONLY insult I threw your way was "are you trolling?" 

You can't ask me for proof when what you want proof of is me pretty much saying that you don't have proof.  It simply doesn't make sense to ask for proof of proof.

Honestly, your grammar and spelling is bad enough for me to not even be able to fully understand what you are even trying to say.  You are arguing against points I didn't make.

edit: I should point out the "proof of proof" comment means that I was pretty much saying there isn't proof and ListerofSmeg is asking I use proof.  That doesn't make sense.

You've been on this site longer than I have, so I think you should have realized by this point that smeg is not to be taken seriously. He's either a very dedicated troll, or so stubborn that convincing him of anything, regardless of how obvious, is a waste of time.


Smeg is a new user, and I've only seen a few of his other posts.  I can't say for sure exactly where he stands.



Ignoring all the religious argument that's going on right now, I thought I'd post this (found it on facebook). It's apparently another side to the guy, Reza Aslan, and all the ways in which he is a massive douche (apparently). Just putting it here for those who are curious.

 Reza Aslan: Media Martyr and Bully (online article)


I still think Fox lady's a bitch for being so ignorant, though.



Highwaystar101 said: trashleg said that if I didn't pay back the money she leant me, she would come round and break my legs... That's why people call her trashleg, because she trashes the legs of the people she loan sharks money to.
ultima said:
DaRev said:

Dude, seriously, what is wrong with you? Happydolphin already explained the differing accounts in Matthew and Luke, in that they give account for Jesus' TWO earthly parents. TWO parents hence TWO generation lines, that lead back to David, as prophesy predicted.

Moreover, and this might be the 3rd time I'm saying this inn this thread, Matthew and Luke were wrttien with two different audiences in mind. Matthew was written with the Jewish reader in mind so it naturally accounted for Joseph's family tree. Luke on the other was written for a Roman (or maybe Greeks, I can't remember) so it listed the Mother, Mary's family. Also, Luke was more focused on FACTS as oppsed to TRADITION, and thus if Jesus' father was REALLY some man in the sky then the only FACT was that MARY was his mother so it is her family that was important for LUKE's (as oppsed to Matthew's) readers. And I'm not just talking shit, as Luke 1:1-4 below, clearly tells you that Luke was gathering factual EVIDENCE from EYEWITNESS to present those factual accounts to Theophilus, who I assume was Roman dignitary:

Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,

Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

 

You haven't read my answers to Happydolphin, or there's something clearly wrong with you. Here, let me summarize. Mary isn't mentioned anywhere in that chapter of Luke. In fact, it clearly states that Jesus, was (as supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, etc. (paraphrased KJV). Your explanation is clearly not consistent with the words of the book.

Also, your assumption that Theophilus was a Roman (or Greek) dignitary is unbacked. Hence, your different audience argument is not backed up by anything. Your facts versus tradition argument is also very weak. So what, Matthew's account of Jesus's life is not factual, but just a description of some tradition?

Also, I wrote this out especially for you: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5551747.

1) First paragraph, I’m not going to go into ancient Jewish legal right, heirship, and lineage with you, mainly because I have no desire to. If you cannot accept that the Gospels of the NT, i.e Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are written to complement each other and give a better, more complete picture of the SAME story, then we need not discuss anything more. You are supposed to marry the genealogy in Matthew with that in Luke, to give a better, more accurate picture of Jesus’ lineage. I’m not sure why you can’t accept that.

2) Second Paragraph, My FACT v TRADITION argument is supported  if you would take the time to study (not literally) both books. For example, Luke 3:1 gives details such as: “Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene.” Such was important to the Roman reader more so than it was to a Jewish reader.

To further prove the different styles and audiences throughout the NT, Luke also wrote the book of Acts, which gives a completely different style of writing, as that book is more concern with HISTORY of the church i.e. after Jesus died.  If read with other books, e.g. Paul’s writings, Acts compliments them and gives a fuller more complete picture of the HISTORY of the early Church. If you can’t accept Acts as a book of HISTORICAL events, then this is a futile discussion.

In any event, the fact remains that there is detail that you find in Luke that you wouldn’t necessarily find in the other Gospels. Throughout the book of Luke the style of writing leads to the conclusion that Luke was more concerned with FACTs of the day and of the Story of Jesus rather than the Jewish traditions that surrounded it. That’s why Luke was not concerned about the FACT that Joseph was not Jesus natural father, but he was more concerned with the FACT of who his natural mother was (I guess as it could be proven), hence the recording of Mary’s family line instead of Joseph’s.

3) I’ll get back to your link – sorry long day at work.



Nintendo Network ID: DaRevren

I love My Wii U, and the potential it brings to gaming.

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trashleg said:

Ignoring all the religious argument that's going on right now, I thought I'd post this (found it on facebook). It's apparently another side to the guy, Reza Aslan, and all the ways in which he is a massive douche (apparently). Just putting it here for those who are curious.

 Reza Aslan: Media Martyr and Bully (online article)


I still think Fox lady's a bitch for being so ignorant, though.

The Weekly Standard is going to have a pro-Fox agenda. The tone of their article suggests that the interviewer's questions were well-founded.

Does seem to have a short temper, though.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

DaRev said:
ultima said:

You haven't read my answers to Happydolphin, or there's something clearly wrong with you. Here, let me summarize. Mary isn't mentioned anywhere in that chapter of Luke. In fact, it clearly states that Jesus, was (as supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, etc. (paraphrased KJV). Your explanation is clearly not consistent with the words of the book.

Also, your assumption that Theophilus was a Roman (or Greek) dignitary is unbacked. Hence, your different audience argument is not backed up by anything. Your facts versus tradition argument is also very weak. So what, Matthew's account of Jesus's life is not factual, but just a description of some tradition?

Also, I wrote this out especially for you: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5551747.

1) First paragraph, I’m not going to go into ancient Jewish legal right, heirship, and lineage with you, mainly because I have no desire to. If you cannot accept that the Gospels of the NT, i.e Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are written to complement each other and give a better, more complete picture of the SAME story, then we need not discuss anything more. You are supposed to marry the genealogy in Matthew with that in Luke, to give a better, more accurate picture of Jesus’ lineage. I’m not sure why you can’t accept that.

2) Second Paragraph, My FACT v TRADITION argument is supported  if you would take the time to study (not literally) both books. For example, Luke 3:1 gives details such as: “Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene.” Such was important to the Roman reader more so than it was to a Jewish reader.

To further prove the different styles and audiences throughout the NT, Luke also wrote the book of Acts, which gives a completely different style of writing, as that book is more concern with HISTORY of the church i.e. after Jesus died.  If read with other books, e.g. Paul’s writings, Acts compliments them and gives a fuller more complete picture of the HISTORY of the early Church. If you can’t accept Acts as a book of HISTORICAL events, then this is a futile discussion.

In any event, the fact remains that there is detail that you find in Luke that you wouldn’t necessarily find in the other Gospels. Throughout the book of Luke the style of writing leads to the conclusion that Luke was more concerned with FACTs of the day and of the Story of Jesus rather than the Jewish traditions that surrounded it. That’s why Luke was not concerned about the FACT that Joseph was not Jesus natural father, but he was more concerned with the FACT of who his natural mother was (I guess as it could be proven), hence the recording of Mary’s family line instead of Joseph’s.

3) I’ll get back to your link – sorry long day at work.

@bold: So if I cannot accept a dubious claim, then we need not discuss anything?

@italicized: So if I cannot accept another dubious claim, then the discussion is futile? Acts starts with a story of resurrection and flight of Jesus into the sky. How is anyone supposed to accept that as a historical fact?

Look, let's say you are right about different audiences/purposes. It does not change the words of the book. The words of the book clearly and unambiguously state that the genealogy presented in Luke is that of Joseph.



           

Free copy of the book

http://4shared.com/download/U6qXes3O



Also the Islamic viewpoint since I do not agree with the authors 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus%27_death



So far what I've read he does not bring up The Gospel of Basilides or Gospel of Basilides where the belief is that Jesus was not crucified but was raised bodily to heaven by God, similar to the Islamic belief.