mtu9356 said: Gnac said: My favourite Metroid! Wut?  I hope your not serious?

Why would you hope that?

DevilRising said: The problem with that letter is the assumption that the reason Wii U doesn't have stronger third party support, is because somehow Nintendo doesn't want it to? And that somehow magically Nintendo could just make third party publishers put out more games for the console? Both fairly ignorant points to make. I'm fairly certain that if Nintendo could get third parties to make more games for their system, outside of them having to hand every publisher a fucking money hat to do so, that they would. Third party support was strong at launch, and I'm sure they assumed sales would be much better than they have been, and that that support would REMAIN strong. Unfortunately, it has not been, on either count. Several third party publishers say Nintendo needs to put out more games themselves to get the system more sales before they'll commit to making Wii U titles. And yet some of those same publishers in the past have bitched that their games "Can't compete with first party Nintendo game sales". So which is it? Personally, I think if more publishers took Ubisoft's approach, just saying "Fuck it" and supporting the system anyway, in hopes that sales will pick up and their investment will pay off, I think that would HELP the console sell. If, for example, GTAV were confirmed to be coming to Wii U, I think that would help. It shouldn't be a matter of "Nintendo needs to put out more games to sell their system before we bother", it should be "We'll put out some games for your console to help make it more attractive to buyers". Unfortunately, some publishers just don't see it that way. So, I'm sorry, but personally I find that "open letter from a 'hardcore Nintendo fan'" to be kind of BS. It certainly IS incumbent upon Nintendo to put out more of their own proven franchises to help the system pick up steam. But third parties waiting around, shuffling their feet, afraid to commit, is also just as big a part of the problem. If more third party publishers had bothered putting out games in the first half of 2013, there wouldn't have BEEN the drought that there was. So it goes both ways.

I couldn't agree more.

I guess that is why Nintendo ‘supposedly’ is the only one that makes money on its consoles - because they make games for it from the outset and do not wait a few years down the line.

Third parties want to sit back and wait until a few years in before they make the commitment, but by then their type of game might not be associated with the console or the gamers that have bought the console from the outset. It’s like some third party refusing to put their brand new FPS on the a Nintendo console in the early days but then wondering why the sequel to that same FPS a year or two later now on the Nintendo console doesn’t sell well.

Suke said:

Well so far, that advice been workng for Sony so far. Making the PS4 the hottest console this holiday season, by listening to their fans.

NintendoPie 1 hour ago


Are you saying that they listened to those letters their fans sent to Sony saying what they should do?

I somehow doubt that.

Nintendopie- I do not think they meant that Nintendo should listen to every request mailed in by every fan- the point made is to listen to the fans collectively- Sony listeed to its fans collectively, particularly where there were pretty clear mandates from them- Many, many Nintendo fans would like to see more 1st party game and more 3rd party games-

DevilRising said: prayformojo said: Nintendo did "it" first. The Gamecube's problem was due to the fact that unlike the N64, it's software was pretty much run of the mill. Wind Waker didn't change the way we think of games like OOT. Sunshine didn't change the way we play platformers like SM64. Metroid Prime, as awesome as it was, didn't change the way we play FPS games. The games that came out for Gamecube were great, but they were just more of the same. THAT'S why it failed. If Nintendo wants to rise again, they have the do what they did between the NES and N64 era. They have to reinvent the wheel and create games and gameplay that DEFINE a generation. They can't just make NSMB and call it a day.   Sorry, but WTF are you actually talking about? GC software was "run of the mill"? What about Sunshine, Star Fox Adventures, or Wind Waker, or Double Dash, or Metroid Prime, or Pikmin, or Eternal Darkness, or Chibi Robo, or Odama, etc., was "run of the mill"? If anything many first party GC titles took too many risks. And sorry, but how exactly do you expect to be taken seriously by accusing Nintendo of needing to "reinvent the wheel" and "create games and gameplay that DEFINE a generation"......when they did JUST THAT with DS and Wii???? Playstation Move and Xbox Kinect wouldn't exist without the Wiimote. And the PS Vita arguably wouldn't have touch screen controls without the success of the DS. Nintendo took major risks and absolutely "reinvented gaming" with the Wii, and guess what a lot of so-called "hardcore" gamers did? They shit all over that, said Nintendo was "selling out" to the new "casual" gamer market, EVEN THOUGH it is statistical fact that Nintendo actually put out MORE "core" content on Wii, per first party game released, than they had on GC or N64. For all the Wii Sports/Fit/Music/Party/Brain Age/etc. games that came out on Wii, there was ALSO 3 Mario games, 2 new Metroid games (And Trilogy), 2 new Kirby games, a new Wario Land, a new Donkey Kong Country, a Mario Kart, a Smash Bros., (technically) 2 Zelda games, a Fire Emblem, a Battalion Wars, 3 brand new rpg IPs (Xenoblade, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower), a new Sin & Punishment game, a new Punch Out, 3 new Excite racing games, etc. etc. etc. etc. So which is it? Did Nintendo "fuck up" by "just putting out the same old shit" (even though that was hardly the case) on Gamecube? Or did they "fuck up" by trying new things with motion controls, and trying to expand the gaming market (which Sony and Microsoft are BOTH now profiting from), with the Wii (even though they continued providing their classic franchises to fans)? You can't have it both ways. And to claim that somehow Nintendo should have reinvented the wheel with Gamecube, because how DARE it not redefine gaming the way 3D Mario and Zelda did in N64? I'm sorry, but what kind of inane point is that to try and make? How exactly was Nintendo supposed to have Mario Sunshine or Wind Waker "redefine gaming"? You can only make the jump from 2D to 3D and shock people (and subsequently influence ALL 3D gaming from there on out) once. You can't "re-redifine gaming" after that. Not by just making another Mario. They DID try to make Mario and Zelda different. And look, many people bitched about that. Then later they came out with Twilight Princess, an amazing game as far as I'm concerned, and while people initially praised it for being great, many later changed their minds and retroactively said "it's too much like OoT". And then when Skyward Sword comes out years later, people at first praise it for being different (again), but then later retroactively change their mind and, surprise surprise, say it should have been more like OoT/TP. And again, in that case, you can't have it both ways. It was no different for Mario Galaxy. That game tried new things too, with the planetoid/gravity physics concepts. And it did some really great things with that. Most people praised it. Though again, there were some who bitched that it wasn't "more like Mario 64". Now they're coming out with Mario 3D World, which honestly looks like it plays a hell of a lot more closely to Mario 64 (minus the painting hub concept), and what are people bitching about now? That it should be more like Galaxy? You see the trend there? Many so-called "fans" are fickle, and honestly don't know what the fuck they want. They complain that Nintendo just keeps bringing out it's same old franchises, that they "need new IPs", and yet Nintendo GIVES people new IPs, like Wii Sports, like Xenoblade, like the Wonderful 101 coming out pretty soon. And what do people say? "Where's the new F-Zero/Star Fox/Metroid/etc?" See the trend there? Nintendo can't win for losing with some folks. And that's never ever going to change. But to accuse Nintendo, of all companies, of not trying to be inovative , is, I'm sorry, pretty laughable.

Wii Sports didn't change the way core games play though. What it DID, was add a genre to the industry-casual games. Core gaming marched on, evolving and changing all on it's own. Nothing Nintendo released changed core gaming last gen.

It didn't use to BE this way.

The NES,SNES and N64 all changed gaming in HUGE leaps and bounds. Back in those days, Nintendo were leaders in innovation. They were trailblazers. They were the ones who defined entire genres and molded the industry. Genres were invented, and reinvented and redefined. The IPs and concepts we play today, were dreamt up by them and created during that era. They were kings.

That all came to and end on Gamecube. Sunshine didn't change platformers, Prime didn't change FPS, Mario Kart didn't change arcade racing, WW didn't add anything to the Zelda formula outside of aesthetics, it was all just refinements and polish to what they had done on N64. Their games were no longer revolutionary. They no longer changed the way we think about core games. Thjey were all great games, but that's not how Nintendo BECAME Nintendo. Instead, they decided to become really great immiators of themselves and people tuned out.

There is A LOT of revisionist history these days in regards to the Gamecube era, mostly because the kids at the time are now in their 20's, and their memories are a little inaccuate. But that's what happened. The theme at the time amoungst gamers was basically, "the N64 version was better". If Nintendo wants to take their throne back, they can. But it's going to take them reassuming the role of innovator (software/core gaming) again.

prayformojo said: The theme at the time amoungst gamers was basically, "the N64 version was better".

Probably the last version they played.

 

Also, how the fuck do you imitate "yourself"? Don't you mean "parody"? Regardless, it's fascinating to see the depths people will plumb to find new perjoratives for the process of maintaining successful franchises. It's almost a parody of what they themselves accuse Nintendo of doing.

sales2099 said: Pretty sure since the Wii being casual first that Nintendo stopped listening to its fans. But then again its just revenge for low sales of Gamecube. Chicken or the egg. Did Nintendo do it or did the fans do it first?

This is exactly the point I have been trying to make for a long time. Nintendo tried doing it the way the "Hardcore Nintendo fans" wanted, but we all saw how well that turned out :/

If you don’t have strong third-party support, you won’t survive in the console market.

Haha...HAHAHAHAHA... that was a good one... Nintendo was abandoned by third parties since the N64 era. That was in 1996. Some 17 years ago.

Even people who mainly play one game, such as Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, can’t fully enjoy their Wii U because they don’t get the DLC that other consoles get. 

How is this Nintendo's fault? The Wii U has what its needed to have these kind of features. Fuck, the Wii had what its needed. If they are not done, it's because the third parties.

My advice to you is to listen to your fans. We are all over the internet telling you what we want.  We want more of the first-party titles you’re famous for, but what we really want is stronger third-party support.

The person writing this really doesn't know how the videogames industry works, and why third parties don't want their games on Nintendo consoles.

Make your console something that we’re proud to have in our living rooms.

You want a device created to show-off? Get a damn iPhone.

Gnac said: mtu9356 said: Gnac said: My favourite Metroid! Wut?  I hope your not serious? Why would you hope that?

I think Other M was missing something - that Nintendo magic. I mean even the sound of the doors opening didn't sound right to me. Yeah Other M wasn't a bad game, but it wasn't as polished as the Prime series other the earlier Metroids I don't think.

Nintendo does listen I think, sometimes, but I hope their listening to the fans doesn't result in many other franchises getting the Other M treatment.

pezus said: Well, except Sony ;o

Yeah. I'm sure they hope you think that.

Gnac said: prayformojo said: The theme at the time amoungst gamers was basically, "the N64 version was better". Probably the last version they played.   Also, how the fuck do you imite "yourself"? Don't you mean "parody"? Regardless, it's fascinating to  see the depths people will plumb to find new perjoratives for the process of maintaining successful franchises. It's almost a parody of what they themselves accuse Nintendo of doing.

What I meant was that they were no longer attempting to revolutionize their franchises and core games in general. Take the Zelda franchise for instance. Compare the leaps in gameplay and ideas between Zelda 1 and OOT. Every title was so ridiuclously redefined and reimagined, that they could have been different games. Then we get WW and it's....boats and cell shading? It didn't add ANYTHING meaninful to Zelda nor improve upon gameplay in a positive way. It looked different, and you could sail, but sailing was monotonus and thus, shelved from all future Zelda titles lol.

The same could be said for just about all Gamecube titles. Compare the innovation from the NES-N64 and then the N64 to Gamecube, and it's quite clear what happened.