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prayformojo on 17 July 2013
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DevilRising said:
prayformojo said:
 

Nintendo did "it" first. The Gamecube's problem was due to the fact that unlike the N64, it's software was pretty much run of the mill. Wind Waker didn't change the way we think of games like OOT. Sunshine didn't change the way we play platformers like SM64. Metroid Prime, as awesome as it was, didn't change the way we play FPS games. The games that came out for Gamecube were great, but they were just more of the same. THAT'S why it failed.

If Nintendo wants to rise again, they have the do what they did between the NES and N64 era. They have to reinvent the wheel and create games and gameplay that DEFINE a generation. They can't just make NSMB and call it a day.

 

Sorry, but WTF are you actually talking about?

GC software was "run of the mill"? What about Sunshine, Star Fox Adventures, or Wind Waker, or Double Dash, or Metroid Prime, or Pikmin, or Eternal Darkness, or Chibi Robo, or Odama, etc., was "run of the mill"? If anything many first party GC titles took too many risks.

And sorry, but how exactly do you expect to be taken seriously by accusing Nintendo of needing to "reinvent the wheel" and "create games and gameplay that DEFINE a generation"......when they did JUST THAT with DS and Wii???? Playstation Move and Xbox Kinect wouldn't exist without the Wiimote. And the PS Vita arguably wouldn't have touch screen controls without the success of the DS. Nintendo took major risks and absolutely "reinvented gaming" with the Wii, and guess what a lot of so-called "hardcore" gamers did? They shit all over that, said Nintendo was "selling out" to the new "casual" gamer market, EVEN THOUGH it is statistical fact that Nintendo actually put out MORE "core" content on Wii, per first party game released, than they had on GC or N64. For all the Wii Sports/Fit/Music/Party/Brain Age/etc. games that came out on Wii, there was ALSO 3 Mario games, 2 new Metroid games (And Trilogy), 2 new Kirby games, a new Wario Land, a new Donkey Kong Country, a Mario Kart, a Smash Bros., (technically) 2 Zelda games, a Fire Emblem, a Battalion Wars, 3 brand new rpg IPs (Xenoblade, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower), a new Sin & Punishment game, a new Punch Out, 3 new Excite racing games, etc. etc. etc. etc.

So which is it? Did Nintendo "fuck up" by "just putting out the same old shit" (even though that was hardly the case) on Gamecube? Or did they "fuck up" by trying new things with motion controls, and trying to expand the gaming market (which Sony and Microsoft are BOTH now profiting from), with the Wii (even though they continued providing their classic franchises to fans)? You can't have it both ways.

And to claim that somehow Nintendo should have reinvented the wheel with Gamecube, because how DARE it not redefine gaming the way 3D Mario and Zelda did in N64? I'm sorry, but what kind of inane point is that to try and make? How exactly was Nintendo supposed to have Mario Sunshine or Wind Waker "redefine gaming"? You can only make the jump from 2D to 3D and shock people (and subsequently influence ALL 3D gaming from there on out) once. You can't "re-redifine gaming" after that. Not by just making another Mario. They DID try to make Mario and Zelda different. And look, many people bitched about that. Then later they came out with Twilight Princess, an amazing game as far as I'm concerned, and while people initially praised it for being great, many later changed their minds and retroactively said "it's too much like OoT". And then when Skyward Sword comes out years later, people at first praise it for being different (again), but then later retroactively change their mind and, surprise surprise, say it should have been more like OoT/TP. And again, in that case, you can't have it both ways.

It was no different for Mario Galaxy. That game tried new things too, with the planetoid/gravity physics concepts. And it did some really great things with that. Most people praised it. Though again, there were some who bitched that it wasn't "more like Mario 64". Now they're coming out with Mario 3D World, which honestly looks like it plays a hell of a lot more closely to Mario 64 (minus the painting hub concept), and what are people bitching about now? That it should be more like Galaxy? You see the trend there? Many so-called "fans" are fickle, and honestly don't know what the fuck they want.

They complain that Nintendo just keeps bringing out it's same old franchises, that they "need new IPs", and yet Nintendo GIVES people new IPs, like Wii Sports, like Xenoblade, like the Wonderful 101 coming out pretty soon. And what do people say? "Where's the new F-Zero/Star Fox/Metroid/etc?" See the trend there?

Nintendo can't win for losing with some folks. And that's never ever going to change. But to accuse Nintendo, of all companies, of not trying to be inovative , is, I'm sorry, pretty laughable.

Wii Sports didn't change the way core games play though. What it DID, was add a genre to the industry-casual games. Core gaming marched on, evolving and changing all on it's own. Nothing Nintendo released changed core gaming last gen.

It didn't use to BE this way.

The NES,SNES and N64 all changed gaming in HUGE leaps and bounds. Back in those days, Nintendo were leaders in innovation. They were trailblazers. They were the ones who defined entire genres and molded the industry. Genres were invented, and reinvented and redefined. The IPs and concepts we play today, were dreamt up by them and created during that era. They were kings.

That all came to and end on Gamecube. Sunshine didn't change platformers, Prime didn't change FPS, Mario Kart didn't change arcade racing, WW didn't add anything to the Zelda formula outside of aesthetics, it was all just refinements and polish to what they had done on N64. Their games were no longer revolutionary. They no longer changed the way we think about core games. Thjey were all great games, but that's not how Nintendo BECAME Nintendo. Instead, they decided to become really great immiators of themselves and people tuned out.

There is A LOT of revisionist history these days in regards to the Gamecube era, mostly because the kids at the time are now in their 20's, and their memories are a little inaccuate. But that's what happened. The theme at the time amoungst gamers was basically, "the N64 version was better". If Nintendo wants to take their throne back, they can. But it's going to take them reassuming the role of innovator (software/core gaming) again.