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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Update: Forza Motorsport 5 doesn't require a day one update to play after all

endimion on 17 July 2013
Angelus said:
So let me get this straight.......

The majority of people in this thread, if they had a choice between

1) Having a game pushed back to get in all the content/features the developer had planned

and

2) Having the game come out as planned, and getting all that content day one with the simple condition of a day one patch to enable the game to work

You would pick option 1?
Because what.....after dropping 560 bucks on the console and the game you no longer have money left to pay for internet? No way for you to download a quick patch? Man....I think you people got bigger problems.

Seriously. When did an internet connection become this mythical beast? When did downloading a patch for the game to work become an unacceptable inconvenience?

When I bought MGS4, I had to wait about 40 minutes for a system update, and a mandatory install before I could play the game. If I hadn't had a connection for that system update, I would have been screwed there too. And since PS3 updates take ages, that was actually much more of an ordeal. You guys are complaining about a patch?! I mean for god's sake....


option 1 doesn't exist on a launch title



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endimion on 17 July 2013
mibuokami said:
endimion said:

so wait some people are actually arguing that they would rather have a buggy game beta for 60 bucks with no required patch so they can play offline even though they more than likely have a perfectly working connection.... than have a game that has a mandatory day one patch that corrects already those bugs and add more value to the game....

Am I reading that correctly.....

I'd take a Forza 5 with mandatory day one patch over any buggy GT game with non mandatory patch....

Holly jeebus the gaming community is revealing the worst they have in them lately, a bunch of cry babies for nothing, with excuses for everything.... it looks like a bunch a pre teen having their first PMS.... and I'm not talking about PS vs XB only..... it's just a big shame to be part of the community lately.... hopefully a lot of those naysayer will actually die out soon... it is just tarnishing our image, and making that hobby really hard to enjoy in a public setting.... I miss those days when console war was more about teasing, than trying to twist everything into a big negatives out of almost nothing....

I'd rather they not ship the product until its actually a complete game; this isn't a bug fix patch, this is a missing content being put into the game by a developer that has been forced to push a game out the door before it's complete.

this launch window you don't push launch titles.... I'd rather have that ofcourse and I'm sure they do to and would have in any other time frame.... but for a launch title it's not happening.... so i'd rather have that way than a half assed game without patch....



theprof00 on 17 July 2013
Angelus said:
So let me get this straight.......

The majority of people in this thread, if they had a choice between

1) Having a game pushed back to get in all the content/features the developer had planned

and

2) Having the game come out as planned, and getting all that content day one with the simple condition of a day one patch to enable the game to work

You would pick option 1?
Because what.....after dropping 560 bucks on the console and the game you no longer have money left to pay for internet? No way for you to download a quick patch? Man....I think you people got bigger problems.

Seriously. When did an internet connection become this mythical beast? When did downloading a patch for the game to work become an unacceptable inconvenience?

When I bought MGS4, I had to wait about 40 minutes for a system update, and a mandatory install before I could play the game. If I hadn't had a connection for that system update, I would have been screwed there too. And since PS3 updates take ages, that was actually much more of an ordeal. You guys are complaining about a patch?! I mean for god's sake....

Nobody is picking on MS because of their decision to please gamers by having a game out for launch.
People are criticizing MS because it's just another case of being out of touch.

For example, you cannot import an xbox one in a country that isn't authorized. Why? What is the big deal? You buy a thing, and it doesn't work. What kind of industry does that kind of business? Everyone here would obviously be able to download a patch. And everyone here obviously DOES patch. And while the xbox fans here are right that a lot of this is just MS criticism, it doesn't mean they aren't right. There has been a lot of "fine print" for this xbox one launch. This is just another example.



endimion on 17 July 2013
theprof00 said:
endimion said:

so wait some people are actually arguing that they would rather have a buggy game beta for 60 bucks with no required patch so they can play offline even though they more than likely have a perfectly working connection.... than have a game that has a mandatory day one patch that corrects already those bugs and add more value to the game....

Am I reading that correctly.....

I'd take a Forza 5 with mandatory day one patch over any buggy GT game with non mandatory patch....

Holly jeebus the gaming community is revealing the worst they have in them lately, a bunch of cry babies for nothing, with excuses for everything.... it looks like a bunch a pre teen having their first PMS.... and I'm not talking about PS vs XB only..... it's just a big shame to be part of the community lately.... hopefully a lot of those naysayer will actually die out soon... it is just tarnishing our image, and making that hobby really hard to enjoy in a public setting.... I miss those days when console war was more about teasing, than trying to twist everything into a big negatives out of almost nothing....

I think what people are getting at, and this is nothing new, is that it's taking the day 1 patch one step further.
This has been a major complaint on all forums worldwide; the idea of day 1 patches hurt the industry.

There used to be a time when developers made a game, and couldn't just fix it in a patch, so they just made a quality game right at the outset. In some cases, this created glitches and cheats, but for the most part you just bought a game, brought it home, and played it. I don't think I'm the only person who has inserted a game only to be told it would need a patch, then cancel out and play something else.

Without being connected, you can pretty much avoid this whole thing. Hell, back in my early twenties I was getting my internet shut off all the time, and for lack of other entertainment, I would turn to playing on my ps2.

I'm not trying to make a big deal about this forza thing, because it really is a big game being brought to launch as quickly as possible, which xbox fans will want. They want a big franchise to play immediately. That's understandable both from the consumer and developer standpoint.

The question is "where do we go from here". Forza isn't the first, and it won't be the last first day patcher. This is simply another case of a bigger issue that gamers have taken up cause against, and because forza pushes that boundary a little further, it makes everything seem as if the people who are tired of patches haven't been listened to at all...no, in fact they're losing more ground now. Does that make sense? It may seem trivial (it is to me), but that doesn't mean I don't get that people just don't have internet in some places, or that patching annoys people. I can at least relate to that, because it's personally something that stopped me from playing a game.


well yeah and in my teens I had to use a pay phone to call home, and I wasn't annoyed by a freaking phone ringing when ever where ever....

I totally agree this shouldn't be a standard in the industry.... but it shouldn't be a big issue if it does.... bad internet connection for most gamer is a thing of the past.... while I understand it would have been a big deal 10 years ago (not for me though, got broadband high speed internet since 1997 :P ) it is not really the case today and it won't be at all 10 years from now....

things are going much much faster now... rentability is essential and they can't have crazy dev periods to achieve that on that kind of title and we are in a launch windows like you said.... this will occure more and more sadely but at the same time it will be less and less an issue for anybody.... I even doubt it is really one today in all honesty....  even my grandma has an internet connection



Zekkyou on 17 July 2013

Can't see that being too much of a big deal. The problem was with a continuous connection requirement; a one time thing ain't bad.



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endimion on 17 July 2013
theprof00 said:
Angelus said:
So let me get this straight.......

The majority of people in this thread, if they had a choice between

1) Having a game pushed back to get in all the content/features the developer had planned

and

2) Having the game come out as planned, and getting all that content day one with the simple condition of a day one patch to enable the game to work

You would pick option 1?
Because what.....after dropping 560 bucks on the console and the game you no longer have money left to pay for internet? No way for you to download a quick patch? Man....I think you people got bigger problems.

Seriously. When did an internet connection become this mythical beast? When did downloading a patch for the game to work become an unacceptable inconvenience?

When I bought MGS4, I had to wait about 40 minutes for a system update, and a mandatory install before I could play the game. If I hadn't had a connection for that system update, I would have been screwed there too. And since PS3 updates take ages, that was actually much more of an ordeal. You guys are complaining about a patch?! I mean for god's sake....

Nobody is picking on MS because of their decision to please gamers by having a game out for launch.
People are criticizing MS because it's just another case of being out of touch.

For example, you cannot import an xbox one in a country that isn't authorized. Why? What is the big deal? You buy a thing, and it doesn't work. What kind of industry does that kind of business? Everyone here would obviously be able to download a patch. And everyone here obviously DOES patch. And while the xbox fans here are right that a lot of this is just MS criticism, it doesn't mean they aren't right. There has been a lot of "fine print" for this xbox one launch. This is just another example.


wait where did you get you can't play the XB1 outside of released in countries ???? since you can play offline after patch I don't see how they could do that!!! they have GPS chips in the XB1 ????

what you won't be able is use XBL services I believe.... but that's because they want to guarantee QoS (Quality of Service) in every market they are in.... they will expand as they deploy more infrastructure in those countries.... this make perfect sens looking at how much care they are putting in XBL and the surrounding infrastructure....
it sucks for some but the point here is to provide the same quality accross all market....

then again you can easily go arround that.... just get a VPN and you are set



mibuokami on 17 July 2013
endimion said:
mibuokami said:
endimion said:

so wait some people are actually arguing that they would rather have a buggy game beta for 60 bucks with no required patch so they can play offline even though they more than likely have a perfectly working connection.... than have a game that has a mandatory day one patch that corrects already those bugs and add more value to the game....

Am I reading that correctly.....

I'd take a Forza 5 with mandatory day one patch over any buggy GT game with non mandatory patch....

Holly jeebus the gaming community is revealing the worst they have in them lately, a bunch of cry babies for nothing, with excuses for everything.... it looks like a bunch a pre teen having their first PMS.... and I'm not talking about PS vs XB only..... it's just a big shame to be part of the community lately.... hopefully a lot of those naysayer will actually die out soon... it is just tarnishing our image, and making that hobby really hard to enjoy in a public setting.... I miss those days when console war was more about teasing, than trying to twist everything into a big negatives out of almost nothing....

I'd rather they not ship the product until its actually a complete game; this isn't a bug fix patch, this is a missing content being put into the game by a developer that has been forced to push a game out the door before it's complete.

this launch window you don't push launch titles.... I'd rather have that ofcourse and I'm sure they do to and would have in any other time frame.... but for a launch title it's not happening.... so i'd rather have that way than a half assed game without patch....

I have a hypothesis: this game was always meant to be worked on right up until the release of the Xbox One. Turn 10 is a MS owned developer and was probably informed right from the get go that the next Xbox would be always online - this would have allowed them to seamlessly intergrate the content patching process into the game as their would be a guarantee that every Xbox One would be connected.

Given the tight schedule of a launch game, they  probably planned right from the beginning to use the additional time from when product goes gold right up until the release of the Xbox One to continue to work on the game. The reversal of policy from MS more than likely threw a spanner into their work and this is their attempt to fix it rather than cut 3 months out of development time.

I REALLY REALLY hope the above scenario is the case and this is just a one off launch problem that lives on as a legacy of Microsoft's PR fuckup. Because it would be a sad day for gamers AND developers if something like this becomes the industry norm.




theprof00 on 17 July 2013
endimion said:


well yeah and in my teens I had to use a pay phone to call home, and I wasn't annoyed by a freaking phone ringing when ever where ever....

I totally agree this shouldn't be a standard in the industry.... but it shouldn't be a big issue if it does.... bad internet connection for most gamer is a thing of the past.... while I understand it would have been a big deal 10 years ago (not for me though, got broadband high speed internet since 1997 :P ) it is not really the case today and it won't be at all 10 years from now....

things are going much much faster now... rentability is essential and they can't have crazy dev periods to achieve that on that kind of title and we are in a launch windows like you said.... this will occure more and more sadely but at the same time it will be less and less an issue for anybody.... I even doubt it is really one today in all honesty....  even my grandma has an internet connection

I agree, but like I've said in other threads, the xbox one's main problem is that it's 2-3 years too early.

Check this out:
http://www.internetworldstats.com/top25.htm

http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm

Spain, a launch country, has a 65.3% internet penetration rate.
Brazil, ~45%.

Like I said, this isn't a huge issue, seeing as how USA is really the most important region sales wise....but it's definitely still an issue for people other than myself who live in other countries.

You are right that internet problems are a thing of the past, and this DOES seem to be extenuating circumstances, and hopefully they reprint the game with the data included at some point (like, immediately).



Chris Hu on 17 July 2013
ethomaz said:
Chris Hu said:

I don't think the PS4 will be any different it has build in wifi so I'm sure it will conect automactically every time you turn it on also.

Like PS3 there is a option for automatically connection... if you disable that you need to connect manually everytime.

You have choices


Well even with a day one patch required to play the game I still think it will be more polished then Drive Club.  Also I say it again free fist day DLC is better then paying for DLC that is already on the disc.



theprof00 on 17 July 2013
endimion said:


wait where did you get you can't play the XB1 outside of released in countries ???? since you can play offline after patch I don't see how they could do that!!! they have GPS chips in the XB1 ????

what you won't be able is use XBL services I believe.... but that's because they want to guarantee QoS (Quality of Service) in every market they are in.... they will expand as they deploy more infrastructure in those countries.... this make perfect sens looking at how much care they are putting in XBL and the surrounding infrastructure....
it sucks for some but the point here is to provide the same quality accross all market....

then again you can easily go arround that.... just get a VPN and you are set

This is just based on MS' supported countries list, and statements that for other countries xbox360 will work (not don mattrick's quote).

Possibly because every console is still DRM tied when you bring it home until you install the patch. ie; all xbox ones are region locked until patched.