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Forums - General Discussion - Graphics Capabilities: Xbox 360 vs. PS3 - A tale of the tape

Not to be mean or anything but I immediatly stopped reading when they stated that rsx runs at 500 mhz. Whoever wrote this doesn't know anything about the ps3 or xbox 360, seeing how rsx runs at 550. I doubt any of those numbers are true.



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sharky said:
Diomedes1976 said:
sieanr said:
your mother said:
Diomedes1976 said:
 

I suppose you know most of this data is fake dont you ?

The RSX has 550mhz not 500Mhz ,the polygon count cant be determined for any of the architechtures ,etc etc ...

Just look at your source .Pathetic attempt boy .

Apart from the 50MHz difference, what else is fake in terms of specifications?


Originally the RSX was going to be clocked at 550mhz, but the clock was cut back due to cost/time constraints. The memory also took a clock hit.

I don't feel like linking to this, but tons has been writen on this and it's been reported on everything from major gaming sites to beyond 3d.

 


Thats only FUD against the machine .If you look at the specs in the pages of IGN or Gamespot or Gamepro the RSX is still at 550mhz .Please stop using rumours of 9 months ago ,never confirmed ,as if they were facts .Nvidia has said clearly the RSX can do 100 billion SOPS ,and that amount can only be achievable at 550mhz at less it would be less than that .Its crazy how the bad rumours about the PS3 spread withut any evidence ....I suppose thats what happen when there are some millions of people around the internet WILLLING those to be true and one company known for its FUD against the rivals churning them out as fast as it can .


Diomodes, it's well known by those in the know that RSX was downgraded to 500mhz. Also the memory was downgraded from 700 to 650 as well, which has also been mentioned in this thread. Developers on Beyond3d confirmed all of this, in a hush hush manner since such things are under NDA and devs aren't allowed to talk about them openly. As well as Xbdestroya/Carl B who works at PSInext (which is a PS3 website, btw) and knows the PS3 hardware well.

 

IGN/whatever are just using old specs from Sony if they still list RSX@550.

 

The proof is, try to find any official specs from Sony (aka, on a sony owned website for example) that have RSX@550. When they made the downgrade Sony simply stopped listing the clockspeed of RSX on any official spec sheets. Of course they're not going to make a press release "hey we downgraded RSX". But in a way, it's as big a proof as any.

 

The official Sony.com spec sheets do not list any clockspeeds any longer: http://www.us.playstation.com/PS3/About/TechnicalSpecifications

 

Here are whatever semi-official stories I could find about this:

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33995

Wiki lists RSX@500mhz:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSX_'Reality_Synthesizer'

 

Here's yet another confirmation:

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060925/3d_tgs.htm

 

Watch.impress may not mean anything to you but they're an EXTREMELY respected Japanese site.

 

I could go on and on but it's getting stormy here.. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3#System_configuration

Here it states that rsx is 550 mhz. Which makes me believe that wikipedia has inaccurate news. And what is up with you posting theinquierer? That is so wrong and so dumb I won't discuss it.

First of a

 



ngg12345 said:
sharky said:
Diomedes1976 said:
sieanr said:
your mother said:
Diomedes1976 said:
 

I suppose you know most of this data is fake dont you ?

The RSX has 550mhz not 500Mhz ,the polygon count cant be determined for any of the architechtures ,etc etc ...

Just look at your source .Pathetic attempt boy .

Apart from the 50MHz difference, what else is fake in terms of specifications?


Originally the RSX was going to be clocked at 550mhz, but the clock was cut back due to cost/time constraints. The memory also took a clock hit.

I don't feel like linking to this, but tons has been writen on this and it's been reported on everything from major gaming sites to beyond 3d.

 


Thats only FUD against the machine .If you look at the specs in the pages of IGN or Gamespot or Gamepro the RSX is still at 550mhz .Please stop using rumours of 9 months ago ,never confirmed ,as if they were facts .Nvidia has said clearly the RSX can do 100 billion SOPS ,and that amount can only be achievable at 550mhz at less it would be less than that .Its crazy how the bad rumours about the PS3 spread withut any evidence ....I suppose thats what happen when there are some millions of people around the internet WILLLING those to be true and one company known for its FUD against the rivals churning them out as fast as it can .


Diomodes, it's well known by those in the know that RSX was downgraded to 500mhz. Also the memory was downgraded from 700 to 650 as well, which has also been mentioned in this thread. Developers on Beyond3d confirmed all of this, in a hush hush manner since such things are under NDA and devs aren't allowed to talk about them openly. As well as Xbdestroya/Carl B who works at PSInext (which is a PS3 website, btw) and knows the PS3 hardware well.

 

IGN/whatever are just using old specs from Sony if they still list RSX@550.

 

The proof is, try to find any official specs from Sony (aka, on a sony owned website for example) that have RSX@550. When they made the downgrade Sony simply stopped listing the clockspeed of RSX on any official spec sheets. Of course they're not going to make a press release "hey we downgraded RSX". But in a way, it's as big a proof as any.

 

The official Sony.com spec sheets do not list any clockspeeds any longer: http://www.us.playstation.com/PS3/About/TechnicalSpecifications

 

Here are whatever semi-official stories I could find about this:

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33995

Wiki lists RSX@500mhz:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSX_'Reality_Synthesizer'

 

Here's yet another confirmation:

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060925/3d_tgs.htm

 

Watch.impress may not mean anything to you but they're an EXTREMELY respected Japanese site.

 

I could go on and on but it's getting stormy here..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3#System_configuration

Here it states that rsx is 550 mhz. Which makes me believe that wikipedia has inaccurate news. And what is up with you posting theinquierer? That is so wrong and so dumb I won't discuss it.

First of a

 


Dude RSX is 500.

 

Did you ignore the watch.impress article? A highly technically minded site that interviews many developers and that gets info straight from the source, Japan? If anybody would know PS3 specs, it is them.

Also, so you believe one wiki article but not the other? I would rather tend to believe the article specific to the RSX than the overall system article which probably contains many other errors.

 

Developers are the ones who know the RSX clockspeed, and I am sure they are the ones who put the correct info in the RSX wiki.

 

Liike I said, find me a current Sony source that says 550. Right around the time of the change Sony mysteriously stopped listing RSX clockspeeds in any official capacity. Coincidence? Originally Sony published the 550 spec around e3, which is the outdated info many sites still have. Now Sony does not claim any clockspeed on RSX publically. Again, ask yourself why? Are there any PS3 developer interviews where devs are saying RSX=550? Can you link me? If it's really 550 should be no prob right? No, because AFAIK Sony has that info under NDA, and they're not allowed to speak about it. Xbox 360 on the other hand, MS has been loud and proud of the specs from day one.

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/support/connecttolive/xbox360/resources/consolespecs.htm

 

MS lists 360 clocks on their official website to this day. Sony does not, they would rather hide the clocks. Coincidence? 

 

 

Sony was aiming for 550, but apparantly they did not make it. Could be lots of reason (heat? yield?). It's even entirely possible that they didn't feel they had the bandwidth to make any use of 550 anyway. In the grand scheme of thing it probably didn't even make much difference, and hey, Cell did hit the 3.2ghz that was promised,

Here is yet another link:

http://gamersreports.com/news/3647/more-playstation-3-rsx-downgrade-info/

First off, I could go edit wiki to claim the RSX is running at 266mhz Now, go ask yourself why Sony or any developer has yet to come out and deny the 550mhz rumor? If this was a rumor they could, very easily, refute it - but they dont



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

BTW, there isn't THAT much of a differrence between 500mhz and 550mhz, when that's only one part of a GPU. If the rest of its abilities are good, then the GPU works well, even with a mere 1/11 of its clock speed removed.



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LordTheNightKnight said:
BTW, there isn't THAT much of a differrence between 500mhz and 550mhz, when that's only one part of a GPU. If the rest of its abilities are good, then the GPU works well, even with a mere 1/11 of its clock speed removed.

 actually yes there is a major difference but ill let one of these guys who think they know technology actually explain it.

 

anyways guy you fail to remember one thing

 

THE FINAL SPECS FOR THE RSX HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED. 



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ssj12 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
BTW, there isn't THAT much of a differrence between 500mhz and 550mhz, when that's only one part of a GPU. If the rest of its abilities are good, then the GPU works well, even with a mere 1/11 of its clock speed removed.

actually yes there is a major difference but ill let one of these guys who think they know technology actually explain it.

 

anyways guy you fail to remember one thing

 

THE FINAL SPECS FOR THE RSX HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED.


Well, I know technology fairly well. The difference between 500 MHz and 550 MHz is exactly 10%. The real-world performance difference between 500 MHz and 550 MHz is less than 10%. If you're trying to say one console is graphically superior to the other, a gamer isn't going to notice a diference of less than 10%, so, yeah, not sure what the big deal is about the specific clock speed.

I will say this: The original specs for the Xbox were a 300 MHz GPU. This was later revised down to a 250 MHz GPU, and then again revised down to a 233 MHz GPU for release. Long, long after the Xbox was released, websites were still quoting the 300 MHz number, and stores like Software Etc. were using printed materials to advertise a 300 MHz GPU, even though the one in the Xbox was 233 MHz. So a clock speed revision "under the radar" is not without precedent.



wow you guys can get hi-tech. Honestly if your not obsessed graphics junkie with all the fine details the graphical difference is hardly worth noting. The poly counts capable on the 360 with hi-res graphics look amazing. I'm blown away by most of whats there, I'm sure the cell is more powerful, but what ever extra power thats squeezed out is hardly noticed. Most cross platform games will look the same, exclusives really can't be compared they are engineered to look amazing on their own system, so comparing Lair with Gears is pointless, the bottom line is they both look amazing. Although Gears has already proven to play and sell amazing will Lair? Only time will tell, because graphics only gets you so far.



LordTheNightKnight said:

What you are missing are first that the EIB is just for the parts within the Cell itself. That does allow the Cell's incredible speed, but that does not connect the rest of the system to the Cell.

Second, that it's not how fast the data travels. Any system worth its salt can do that nearly instantaneously, even the oldest systems. It's how much data can travel through a bus at a time, and how quickly the next set of data can travel.

For example, the RSX RAM, an advanced form of Rambus DRAM, does have a high clock speed. That is apparenlty why it's ideal for FMVs (hence for blu-ray playback). Yet it also has a much slower latency than other forms of RAM. Now when it comes to system RAM, clock speed and latency can be interchangable, but that means that the GDDR3 RAM that the 360 uses is on equal footing with the RSX, since it has a slower clock speed, but much faster latency.

And no, the Cell can't overcome that. If the Cell processes more than 256MB of non-graphical data, that extra data isn't fitting into the system RAM, no matter how fast the Cell processed that data. It just doesn't work that way. The data beyond those MB has to wait for the next cycle, which depends on the clock speed and latency of the RAM, hence why the 360's RAM can work just as fast.

Now things that the Cell can process faster in its RAM cycle than the Xenon can will be better on the PS3. This is why the Cell is so good at physics. They take up the same amount of memory on both systems, yet the Cell can calculate more in one real time cycle than the 360 can. And if post-processing works that way as well, then the PS3 has a way to compensate for having to use its VRAM for frame buffering and texture buffering (the 360 splits that with the 10MB of EDRAM for frames, and the 512MB of GDDR3 for texturing).

So my point is the Cell isn't set up to make the rest of the PS3 run faster. Real time graphics don't work that way.

You've lost me..... look at that diagram again...... everything connected to the EIB rins at 3.2 ghz that mens the ram and the to high speed flex I/O ports...... which the "other" devices are connected to. Please show me your sources and second of all the PS3 is supposed to be a streaming system.... meaning what ever non graphical data is supposed to be outputed as fast as it's calculated...... which should be a big deal because the majority of space on any ram in any console that is taken up is normally because of graphics. you still do not get that the 360 does not have 512 dedicated to video but is shared with the processor of the 360. The epics deved pushed for more memory but I assure it wasn't because of non-graphical data.

Why do I feel as if I have typed this before?

 Edit:

 

 

I am not sure if I said it before (wicked case of deja vu) but the cpu seems to access the memory on the same memory controller as the GPU.That is what would be considered a bottleneck one that the PS3 doesn't seem to have. You as a gamer would not see these effects because of the memexport and the Edram. This makes them more of a necessity than additional features. It isn't a crippling one because as a said above it is expected for the gpu to take up a large chunk of the bandwidth and space to the memory.



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