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Forums - Microsoft - DigitalFoundry: X1 memory performance improved for production console/ESRAM@192 GB/s

Seen this on Gaf and found it funny.

So if we update the console power to DBZ level..

PS4:


XBone:


WiiU:

 

This news should bode well for the XOne. It still doesn't make it as fantastic as PS4 because of the unified memory pool, but should be better then we had originally anticpiated which is good. Not sure if they will hit that theoretical target though.

192gb/s (theoretical) to 32mb memory and PS4 176GB/s to 8Gigabytes of unified memory pool.



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theprof00 said:
disolitude said:
theprof00 said:
disolitude said:
theprof00 said:
wow looks like disolitude is wrong again :D
Guess they did go for higher bandwidth in the end, despite dis saying they didn't need it.


Actually no, it proves me right. It shows that X1 didn't need touse GDDR5 RAM. Perfectly capable with DDR3 + esRAM

I thought your point of that thread was that their setup was perfectly in sync with their output, and they didn't need the high speed of gddr5. If I'm wrong about that, my bad. That's how I interpreted it, although I do see that a large part of it was about gddr5, I thought it was more about the speed

All I was saying is that Xbox 1 GPU does not need a contant 150 GB/s throughput when it comes to bandwidth. 

GDDR5 RAM comes with extra power usage, extra heat, extra cost...and that Microsoft was able to maximize performance of the console without implementing GDDR5 RAM. 

Microsoft designed and built the Xbox 360 in 6 months in early 2005. If they thought GDDR5 RAM was needed after PS4 reveal, they would have made the change. Looks like the did make a change to compensate looking at this article...

Really? I was under the impression that gddr5 ran cooler, used less power.

And yeah, you've just proven they could make a change. However, a change to gddr5 is much more radical than upping the esram speed :/ changing the ram would require a completely new motherboard.

 

http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/gddr5/Pages/gddr5.aspx#1

Under footnotes:

"Based on internal ASIC power measurement data from the AMD Radeon™ HD 6490M 1GB GDDR5 @ 750MHz (engine clock)/800 MHz (memory clock) = 16.5W vs. AMD Radeon™ HD 6470M 1GB DDR3 @ 750MHz (engine clock)/900 MHz (memory clock) = 14.9W."

 

These are low end mobile chips. That discrepancy only grows when you start adding more powerful GPUs. PS4 is most likely utilizing 1 Ghz memory clock GDDR5 RAM, while Xbox One is using 1066 Mhz for its DDR3 ram. You could argue that ESRAM may add more power usage for Xbox One though...



ethomaz said:
disolitude said:

All I was saying is that Xbox 1 GPU does not need a contant 150 GB/s throughput when it comes to bandwidth. 

GDDR5 RAM comes with extra power usage, extra heat, extra cost...and that Microsoft was able to maximize performance of the console without implementing GDDR5 RAM. 

Microsoft designed and built the Xbox 360 in 6 months in early 2005. If they thought GDDR5 RAM was needed after PS4 reveal, they would have made the change. Looks like the did make a change to compensate looking at this article...

I agree... they doesn't need but it will be better with.

Just to fix... GDDR5 require less power usage than DDR3 because it uses low voltage heat and cost is right BTW.


No it doest...post me a single link which states that GDDR5 uses less power at same clock speed as DDR3.



masterb8tr said:
i will admit to have no knowledge of this whatsoever. But people at GAF and Beyond3D seems to believe this supports the downclock rumour.

quote:
Well,
800Mhz x 128 bits = 102 GB/s
According to the article the flux capacitor found by MS allows read and write at the same time(intel, hire these guys) and so theorical max bandwidth should be 102 x 2 = 204
But the news say is 194 with take us to a 96GB/s read and 96GB/s write and so to 750MHz x 128 bits.

Downgrade or what?

/quote

This is what i read on Eurogamer... which sounds similar... i personally don't understand it:

Doesn't this sound like they are trying to hide a downgrade in an upgrade. Some clever PR before the world catches on?

e.g If the clock was still 800Mhz and it magically became bi-directional wouldn't the the theorical max bandwidth be 204 GB/s?

They claim 192GB/s which split between reading and writing gives us 96 GB/s each way. To make that work the clock would have to be 750Mhz which is a 50Mhz down clock!?



Making an indie game : Dead of Day!

disolitude said:

http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/gddr5/Pages/gddr5.aspx#1

Under footnotes:

"Based on internal ASIC power measurement data from the AMD Radeon™ HD 6490M 1GB GDDR5 @ 750MHz (engine clock)/800 MHz (memory clock) = 16.5W vs. AMD Radeon™ HD 6470M 1GB DDR3 @ 750MHz (engine clock)/900 MHz (memory clock) = 14.9W."

 

These are low end mobile chips. That discrepancy only grows when you start adding more powerful GPUs. PS4 is most likely utilizing 1 Ghz memory clock GDDR5 RAM, while Xbox One is using 1066 Mhz for its DDR3 ram. You could argue that ESRAM may add more power usage for Xbox One though...

You forget to add...

Up to 29% performance improvement measured using 3DMark Vantage Performance scores for the AMD Radeon™ HD 6490M. AMD Radeon™ HD 6490M 3DMark Vantage Performance...

The power measurement is stressing both GPUs... the GDDR5 permit that the GPU in HD 6490M was more used than GPU in 6470M... that's because the card uses more watts than another.

DDR3 runs at 1.25-1.65V while GDDR5 ~1V... the GDDR5 uses less power than DDR3.



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Wrong link.



disolitude said:

No it doest...post me a single link which states that GDDR5 uses less power at same clock speed as DDR3.

Can be but the official specs shows that GDDR5 uses less vontage than DDR3.

I know that less voltage is not always equal less power use but for computer components in most cases that's works like that.

I think the AMD results are just because the GPU is being more used... so the performance grow and the power consume too.



A question....

The eSRAM clock runs at the GPU clock or it can run async?



A question....

The eSRAM clock runs at the GPU clock or it can run async?



ethomaz said:

GDDR5 uses less power but genereates more heat.

WTF???? Power is used to switch transistors and load/unload capacitors. All the power is transferred to heat in the end. This is really a no brainer: The more powr a circuit requires, the more heat it generates. Basic electronics.