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Conina said:
caffeinade said:

http://image.ibb.co/mYqMJm/Microsoft_Store.png

And if the cheap, corporate skin doesn't make you run for the hills:
It is Windows Exclusive, meaning there is no support for Linux or MacOS.
This is Microsoft, so they are going to spy on you.
Ect.

There is no support for Sony and Nintendo either.... what do you expect from the Windows Store with Microsoft as platform owner?

Is there Windows support in the Mac AppStore or PS Store or Nintendo eShop or any Linux game store?

And what's your problem with the "corporate skin" of the store? You can filter for game genres and when you click on a game which looks interesting, you get a ton of useful information (game description, system requirements, features, screenshots, links to similar games...).

The Windows Store works just as well as any other digital game store.

Only having Windows support is expected from Microsoft.
It still makes their platform inferior.

Firstly Linux doesn't really have "stores".
Some distros allow users to donate and stuff, but everything is free and open source (and it isn't like a Windows user couldn't just compile the software for their Windows machine, given a fair amount of work).
Linux repos stock emulators, compatibility layers (WINE) and VM software.

I don't use the Mac AppStore, but I am wiling to bet that you can buy or download either:
Emulation software,
Compatibility layers,
VM ware,
or Microsoft developed, first party software (Word and whatever).

"PS Store or Nintendo eShop"
Don't waste my time.
Sony and Nintendo don't offer their consumers choice, and they are not able to put each others games of their platforms.

Steam is a more homely place.
When you are on Steam, you are treated more like family, rather than cattle.
The Microsoft store looks and feels like a super market (except they aren't even selling anything worth while).

Does the Microsoft Store support Mods or other UGC, has it had a clicker game that the developers made for a sale, ect.
The Microsoft Store is just that: A Store.
Steam is an ecosystem and a way of life.

Ka-pi96 said:
caffeinade said:

Indie means independent.
I would put Valve under the indie label, as they are free to do whatever they like.
Valve does not have to abide by their shareholders' or publishers' demands.

Well they kind of do. They may not be publicly traded, but they still have shareholders (eg. Gabe) who call the shots.

From what I've seen indie doesn't just mean independent by itself, but more that it's not backed by a wealthy corporation. Valve are definitely a wealthy corporation themselves so I wouldn't count them as indie.

If Bill Gates decided to start his own studio, just because he has loads of money: the studio wouldn't automatically be AAA.
Assuming it was just him, or him and a few friends in an office: they could be an indie studio.

Gabe is pretty much the only shareholder who matters when talking about Valve.
A few people owning a studio is typically seen in smaller indie studios too.

I personally think that money has very little to do with a studio's indie status.
Mojang (Minecraft) surly had plenty of money in the bank while they were still indie.
In my opinion: the power dynamic between the studio and it's environment is what matters.

Valve is not able to be controlled by any other company in any meaningful way.
Valve is not owned by an external force.
Valve doesn't even have to abide by platform holder's rules.




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JEMC said:
caffeinade said:

L4D3:
This year, Source 2, Vulkan, partnered with AMD / Radeon.
Just you wait.
Get ready to have some fun, and buy some microtransactions.

Well, to wait is the only thing we can do right now. Maybe, just maybe, we'll get something at GDC.

In any case, I don't play multiplayer games so even if they do announce L4D3 (which I still doubt), I'll be safe from the damn microtransactions as I won't care about it.

caffeinade said:


If Microsoft thinks they can push PC users to their store with AoE 4, they will likely fail.
At best, they will be treated as fondly as Origin or Uplay.
Microsoft has virtually no chance of becoming a GOG or Steam: not in Microsoft's current state.

As I said in todays news, what yesterday was a "no on Steam" is now a "maybe on Steam", and soon it will be an "also on Steam".

AoE4 is harder to tell as it's a completely new game, but since all their strategy games have landed on Steam (AoE 2, Rise of the Nations, Halo Wars...), I hope it also comes to Valve's platform.

Well at the very least, we are going to get Artifact this year.
It will be very interesting to see how the market place reacts to that title.
I have so many questions about that title:
How are they going to handle UGC?
How will the game be monetised?
Will the game sport an esports scene?
Will the game be on mobile?
Is it going to have good VR support?
Are Valve going to integrate it into the Steam trading card system?
Ect.

I don't expect to see anything directly related to a title at GDC.
Maybe a Vulkan tech demo, showcasing: loads of enemies moving about an environment, or terrain destruction, or something like that.
Source 2 is a modern engine: I want to see what is possible on a PC, with highly talented dev team.


Oh, and I better clear this up: I don't expect AoE 4 to fail financially.
It will likely fail at trapping PC users in the Xbox ecosystem.

I don't think we have Halo Wars 2 yet.
Hopefully both game, come to both platforms.



caffeinade said: 

Oh, and I better clear this up: I don't expect AoE 4 to fail financially.
It will likely fail at trapping PC users in the Xbox ecosystem.

I don't think we have Halo Wars 2 yet.
Hopefully both game, come to both platforms.

I just don't see Valve giving into MS's demands and turning their store to fully support UWP, let alone handing over their networks to MS and having them turn into XBL ones (because let's be real, MS won't stop at one game demanding the XBL network connection).

 

I think AoE remake and AoE 4 will flop on the store alone tbh. Their store is an ant compared to Steam, let alone B.net and other stores out there. There will be zero mod support, which already kills a good chunk of that community already. People have and still do make maps for RTS games to this day. Hell, Forged Battalion came out on Steam for early access nearly two weeks ago and that has 42 maps already. The devs are very supportive of mod support, as well as obtaining feedback.



Mankind, in its arrogance and self-delusion, must believe they are the mirrors to God in both their image and their power. If something shatters that mirror, then it must be totally destroyed.

JEMC said:
vivster said:
I have never actually used the windows Store and I'm not necessarily against using it if it has something exclusive I want. What's so bad about it compared to any other store?

My biggest problem with Windows Store is that it's exclusive to Win10, and I still run Win7, and all those problems from the beginning that have still been unresolved (windowed games instead of fullscreen, lack of mods, etc.)

 

caffeinade said:
vivster said:
I have never actually used the windows Store and I'm not necessarily against using it if it has something exclusive I want. What's so bad about it compared to any other store?

http://image.ibb.co/mYqMJm/Microsoft_Store.png

And if the cheap, corporate skin doesn't make you run for the hills:
It is Windows Exclusive, meaning there is no support for Linux or MacOS.
This is Microsoft, so they are going to spy on you.
Ect.

None of those things are remotely relevant to me. Anything else? I guess the worst would be to actually create a Windows account.

Pemalite said:
vivster said:

1. I really like to use Windows storage spaces as a logical RAID option because I like that it's bound to the OS, rather than the Mainboard. The other option would be to build the RAID via the mainboard in the UEFI. Are there noticeable performance differences between the board option and storage spaces? As I understand both are merely soft RAIDs. Hardware RAID with an extra RAID controller is out of the question. Has anyone had experience of moving RAIDs made with Storage Spaces to another system with the same OS?

2. My RAID of choice would be RAID10 on 4 HDDs because of the resiliency and speed. I don't care much about write speed, but I do care a lot about reading speed. RAID10 seems to be the best choice for that. Is that correct? Is there maybe any value in just using a 2x RAID0 and have a daily backup of all files on?

3. Any suggestions towards specific HDDs for that purpose? 4x8TB or 4x 10TB.

I checked out the vast options of HDDs and it seems the HGSTs are pretty loud. I don't really want to go Seagate so the best option seems to be a WD Red.

Storage spaces will be slower. Sometimes by up to 30% in some scenarios.

Raid 10 is a solid choice.
This will break it down with all the Pro's and Con's of each.
https://www.prepressure.com/library/technology/raid

Go Western Digital Red. And in my experience... Less drives the better, so go all out on capacity if you can.
Have you thought about going the NAS route? Then your storage won't be tied to your PC.

NAS would have several disadvantages for me. For one thing it's just another thing gathering dust, for another I really want the optimal read performance and sending it over LAN with a CIFS overhead seems counter intuitive for that. Not to mention the hassle with network drives. The PC I'm using now was once a dedicated file server that housed my storage until I moved it into my new gaming build. I had plenty of experience with that. I don't need to have the storage detached from my PC because I won't use it anywhere else. If I actually need stuff from there on other systems I'm going to use FTP.

I think I'm going to choose 4x 8TB WD Red. Currently I don't even need 10TB of space and I don't want my storage to become too big anyway. I'd rather force myself to clean it up. So 16TB should be plenty for everything for at least the next 5 years.

Last edited by vivster - on 31 January 2018

If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Conina said:
Rockstar Humble Bundle: https://www.humblebundle.com/games/rockstar-games-bundle

Best bundle ever?

Had GTA V been included, it would have been the best bundle ever. But without it, it's just a very good one.

caffeinade said:
JEMC said:

As I said in todays news, what yesterday was a "no on Steam" is now a "maybe on Steam", and soon it will be an "also on Steam".

AoE4 is harder to tell as it's a completely new game, but since all their strategy games have landed on Steam (AoE 2, Rise of the Nations, Halo Wars...), I hope it also comes to Valve's platform.


Oh, and I better clear this up: I don't expect AoE 4 to fail financially.
It will likely fail at trapping PC users in the Xbox ecosystem.

I don't think we have Halo Wars 2 yet.
Hopefully both game, come to both platforms.

I think that, without Steam sales, both the remake and AoE4 will be comercial failures. The Windows Store isn't that big.

But as you noted with Halo Wars 2, MSoft is a mistery when it comes to decide what games they launch on Steam and which not, so they may decide that it's best for them to have a comercial failure only on their store than having a success on Steam.

By the way, maybe they didn't put Halo Wars 2 on Steam because the first one hasn't been a success. If we look at SteamSpy we see that:

  • Age of Empire 2 HD_ 4.8 million owners
  • Age of Empire 3_ 2.3 million owners
  • Age of Mythology_ 1.2 million owners
  • Halo Wars_ 166 thousand owners

Halo didn't work.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

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Ka-pi96 said:
JEMC said:

I think that, without Steam sales, both the remake and AoE4 will be comercial failures. The Windows Store isn't that big.

But as you noted with Halo Wars 2, MSoft is a mistery when it comes to decide what games they launch on Steam and which not, so they may decide that it's best for them to have a comercial failure only on their store than having a success on Steam.

By the way, maybe they didn't put Halo Wars 2 on Steam because the first one hasn't been a success. If we look at SteamSpy we see that:

  • Age of Empire 2 HD_ 4.8 million owners
  • Age of Empire 3_ 2.3 million owners
  • Age of Mythology_ 1.2 million owners
  • Halo Wars_ 166 thousand owners

Halo didn't work.

Didn't it release just a couple of months before Halo Wars 2 though? It's hardly surprising it didn't do so well. Besides, as an RTS Halo is no where near the level of popularity of AOE. If they ever release the Master Chief Collection on Steam I think that would sell very well though... I know I'd definitely buy it!

I don't really know when Halo Wars 2 launched so I can't say. But the first one launched in April, and those sales seem very low after almost 9 months and the game being on sale several times.

The Master Chief Collection would obviously do better, but maybe not that much better. The last game to land on PC was Halo 2 in an attempt to sell Vista, and that was a lo ng ago. I don't know if the collection would have much hype.

Besides, it's not even on the Windows Store yet, so I'm not even sure if MSoft will put it on PC ever.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
Conina said:
Rockstar Humble Bundle: https://www.humblebundle.com/games/rockstar-games-bundle

Best bundle ever?

Had GTA V been included, it would have been the best bundle ever. But without it, it's just a very good one.

caffeinade said:


Oh, and I better clear this up: I don't expect AoE 4 to fail financially.
It will likely fail at trapping PC users in the Xbox ecosystem.

I don't think we have Halo Wars 2 yet.
Hopefully both game, come to both platforms.

I think that, without Steam sales, both the remake and AoE4 will be comercial failures. The Windows Store isn't that big.

But as you noted with Halo Wars 2, MSoft is a mistery when it comes to decide what games they launch on Steam and which not, so they may decide that it's best for them to have a comercial failure only on their store than having a success on Steam.

By the way, maybe they didn't put Halo Wars 2 on Steam because the first one hasn't been a success. If we look at SteamSpy we see that:

  • Age of Empire 2 HD_ 4.8 million owners
  • Age of Empire 3_ 2.3 million owners
  • Age of Mythology_ 1.2 million owners
  • Halo Wars_ 166 thousand owners

Halo didn't work.

Halo Wars hasn't sold well because:
Why would someone buy a console RTS, in the land of RTS titles.
Where was the marketing?
It only launched in April 2017.

It is a 2009, X360 title: why would you buy it, go buy a better game?
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/halo-wars
http://store.steampowered.com/app/459220/Halo_Wars_Definitive_Edition/
The remaster is ugly.
Even AoM is a better looking game.



Microsoft it lucky to have sold 166k units.
At best it is an ugly remaster of a ~ 8 year old game.
At worst it is an insult: rubbing in the fact that PC players were not getting Halo Wars 2.

Why would a consumer buy a product, if they don't feel looked after?

JEMC said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Didn't it release just a couple of months before Halo Wars 2 though? It's hardly surprising it didn't do so well. Besides, as an RTS Halo is no where near the level of popularity of AOE. If they ever release the Master Chief Collection on Steam I think that would sell very well though... I know I'd definitely buy it!

I don't really know when Halo Wars 2 launched so I can't say. But the first one launched in April, and those sales seem very low after almost 9 months and the game being on sale several times.

The Master Chief Collection would obviously do better, but maybe not that much better. The last game to land on PC was Halo 2 in an attempt to sell Vista, and that was a lo ng ago. I don't know if the collection would have much hype.

Besides, it's not even on the Windows Store yet, so I'm not even sure if MSoft will put it on PC ever.

FPS Halo titles would sell pretty well on PC.
Halo Wars 2 released in Feb 2017.

Last edited by caffeinade - on 31 January 2018

caffeinade said:
JEMC said:

Had GTA V been included, it would have been the best bundle ever. But without it, it's just a very good one.

I think that, without Steam sales, both the remake and AoE4 will be comercial failures. The Windows Store isn't that big.

But as you noted with Halo Wars 2, MSoft is a mistery when it comes to decide what games they launch on Steam and which not, so they may decide that it's best for them to have a comercial failure only on their store than having a success on Steam.

By the way, maybe they didn't put Halo Wars 2 on Steam because the first one hasn't been a success. If we look at SteamSpy we see that:

  • Age of Empire 2 HD_ 4.8 million owners
  • Age of Empire 3_ 2.3 million owners
  • Age of Mythology_ 1.2 million owners
  • Halo Wars_ 166 thousand owners

Halo didn't work.

Halo Wars hasn't sold well because:
Why would someone buy a console RTS, in the land of RTS titles.
Where was the marketing?
It only launched in April 2017.

It is a 2009, X360 title: why would you buy it, go buy a better game?
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/halo-wars
http://store.steampowered.com/app/459220/Halo_Wars_Definitive_Edition/
The remaster is ugly.
Even AoM is a better looking game.



Microsoft it lucky to have sold 166k units.
At best it is an ugly remaster of a ~ 8 year old game.
At worst it is an insult: rubbing in the fact that PC players were not getting Halo Wars 2.

Why would a consumer buy a product, if they don't feel looked after?

JEMC said:

I don't really know when Halo Wars 2 launched so I can't say. But the first one launched in April, and those sales seem very low after almost 9 months and the game being on sale several times.

The Master Chief Collection would obviously do better, but maybe not that much better. The last game to land on PC was Halo 2 in an attempt to sell Vista, and that was a lo ng ago. I don't know if the collection would have much hype.

Besides, it's not even on the Windows Store yet, so I'm not even sure if MSoft will put it on PC ever.

FPS Halo titles would sell pretty well on PC.
Halo Wars 2 released in Feb 2017.

Halo Wars was basically an RTS made entirely for one console. It pales in comparison to most RTS games found on PC, both from the past and the present. I remember playing it back last gen and telling my mates that it was basically "babby's first RTS", due to how simplified it was and how little strategies it offered.

I was also pissed when I'd found out that Halo Wars was what killed of Ensemble studios, thus killing off the original AoE studio and a PC RTS in the process. We'd basically slapped an RTS on a console, not porting it to PC and then killing the PC studio when the console RTS sold like crap. That had to be the worst kind of spit in your face I'd ever seen from a company, and it's why I still hold it against MS.

@Bolded: Yeah, that's pretty much how I've felt about them over the years. They cared so much more about their console and brand, that they tried to give PC less and less, while trying to control it with GFWL, as well as removing exclusives it had or dismantling them altogether./ All of their games these days are made for their console first. None of them are made for PC first at all, no matter how hard a fan or PR will tell you. They just don't care, and they still don't care about the competition around them on either side. All they are resorting to now is strong arm tactics. They want everyone on their network, everyone using UWP, no modding, and basically trying to turn PC into a console with very little freedom or choice.

 

I wouldn't at all be surprised if AoE remake/AoE 4 make their way to X1, meaning they were designed for that platform first, especially given how both of those games will have XBL  integrated into them.



Mankind, in its arrogance and self-delusion, must believe they are the mirrors to God in both their image and their power. If something shatters that mirror, then it must be totally destroyed.

caffeinade said:

JEMC said:

*blah, blah, blah*

Halo didn't work.

Halo Wars hasn't sold well because:
Why would someone buy a console RTS, in the land of RTS titles.
Where was the marketing?
It only launched in April 2017.

It is a 2009, X360 title: why would you buy it, go buy a better game?
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/halo-wars
http://store.steampowered.com/app/459220/Halo_Wars_Definitive_Edition/
The remaster is ugly.
Even AoM is a better looking game.

*pics*

Microsoft it lucky to have sold 166k units.
At best it is an ugly remaster of a ~ 8 year old game.
At worst it is an insult: rubbing in the fact that PC players were not getting Halo Wars 2.

Why would a consumer buy a product, if they don't feel looked after?

Given how many turds are successfully released on PC, a game like Halo Wars should have sold better. Imho, at least 500k.

And I don't agree with you, Halo Wars doesn't look worse than Mythology.

caffeinade said:
JEMC said:

The Master Chief Collection would obviously do better, but maybe not that much better. The last game to land on PC was Halo 2 in an attempt to sell Vista, and that was a lo ng ago. I don't know if the collection would have much hype.

Besides, it's not even on the Windows Store yet, so I'm not even sure if MSoft will put it on PC ever.

FPS Halo titles would sell pretty well on PC.
Halo Wars 2 released in Feb 2017.

The FPS market is already very crowded, and Halo doesn't have as many followers on PC as it has on consoles. It wouldn't be a guaranteed success.

Chazore said:

I wouldn't at all be surprised if AoE remake/AoE 4 make their way to X1, meaning they were designed for that platform first, especially given how both of those games will have XBL  integrated into them.

The AoE remake launches next month. We would know about a console version by now.

And if MSoft is stupid enough to put AoE 4 on consoles after the previous console RTS failures, killing the franchise in the process, they deserve nothing but shame.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Ka-pi96 said:

AOE 2 was on console and was the best game in the series...

Putting it on console certainly doesn't mean killing the franchise!

Yeah but that was years ago, I wouldn't trust them to not screw up the PC version if they released it on consoles as well. It'd have a simplified interface.