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WoodenPints said:
JEMC said:

I was actually surprised by some of the numbers as well. For example, I find it hard to understand why some would play an FPS with a controller on PC given how much better the k-board & mouse combo is, but there's an almost 10% of users that prefer to use one. I guess they're like you and play on a TV using the Big Picture mode.

And, on the other side, Third person action games usually play much, much better with a controller, specially if some form of driving is included, so learning that only half the players use one for those games is quite surprising.

I don't play in big picture mode just standard desktop with an Xbox controller as my mouse to navigate. Actually I started moving away from favouring Mouse+keyboard these past 5 years with probably 70-80% of my gaming been done on the controller then last year decided to replace the desk with a TV and now do everything via a Xbox controller.

I just generally find using a controller more fun and relaxing and would be one of those who choose to play a FPS on a controller whilst acknowledging m+k is probably the superior option for most of them not to mention it allows me to game more instead of my wrist and hands telling me to stop after a short period so age is probably a factor as well since I can't smash nerds 24/7 with my hands hovering on wasd like I used to back in 2000 on Quake 3.

My apologies for assuming that you were using the Big Picture mode, I thought you would use that since it's designed to make the navigations in Steam easier for controllers.

In my case, it's a per-game decision as I said before. Some play better with a controller and some play better with keyboard & mouse. For FPSs I wouldn't think of using a controller, as I'm the type of gamer that doesn't go run towards the enemy in a rain of fire, but rather leave some space and try to hunt them from cover, where the mouse offers an accuracy that no controller can mimic. Sadly, that game style means that I can't play some fast paced games, like DOOM.

As for my wrists, I'm not a kid either and I still don't have a problem with them even after spending my day at work in from of a PC. Then again, my gaming sessions almost never go beyond 2 hours so maybe that's the reason I don't have a problem with them.

Mummelmann said:
JEMC said:
Mummelmann said:

That is a bunch of absolute bullshit. I've played about 2000 hours of FIFA since 2015 and can confirm that this is nowhere near true. And it's so blatant and obvious that I don't understand why they're even bothering at this point.

Well, they claim that they won't use the new DDA tech on those games, not that they're not using something else.

Also, you need to play better games .

In my defense; I play good games as well. :P Currently finishing my second playthrough of Pathfinder Kingmaker (which actually made me go out and buy Pathfinder Pen & Paper system!).

My spring PC plans seem to have taken a hit though, with GPU's being rare as unicorns, no properly tempting display being released any time soon, and now RAM seems to be hurtling towards the sky in regards to price. I recently read that memory sticks were increasing in price by around 10% per day at online retailers here, this was at the end of February. Damn it!

First of all, thanks for acknowledging that Fifa isn't a good game XD.

Sadly, I didn't play RPGs back in the day, heck my first rol game was FF 7, and now those games like Pathfinder Kingmaker, Divinity or Pillars of Eternity seem to complex for a newby like me. But I plan to change that! I grabbed Pillars of Eternity when the EGS gave it away and I'll give it a go sooner or later (first I want to finish the trio of new Wolfenstein games, done with Old Blood and in the middle of New Order).

The PC hardware situation is sadly very disappointing. About this time last year I had to postpone my plan to upgrade half of my PC (new CPU and everything related to that, even RAM), but given how things have gone, I doubt I would have been able to upgrade without spending more money than necessary. Let's hope things start to settle down "soon" and prices go back to normal... whatever that means nowadays.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

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Bofferbrauer2 said:
JEMC said:

AMD needs to get their shit together, they lost 1/3 of their marketshare in one year, and it won't be near as easy to get it back.

The problem this year (well, last year) is that the new Radeons came late and due to the enormous demand on all their products (CPUs, GPUs and Consoles), can't nearly fulfill all of them. Consoles go first due to not delivering here would be a contract breach, and due to the limited capacities at TSMC, there's not much volume left for the CPUs and the GPUs.

The CPUs had the advantage that they came a bit earlier and that they are also needed in the very lucrative server market, meaning GPUs really just get the leftovers in terms of production capacities right now, and as such can't produce nearly enough to cover demand, even though it's quite lower than for NVidias GPUs. In fact, NVidia going for Samsung 8nm instead of TSMC could mean they dodged quite a bullet here in terms of production capacity, as while Samsung's capacity is also stretched, it still allowed for more than would have been possible with TSMC now.

Launching their products two months after the competition had a sure impact, but we're not talking about the sales of the last year but the whole PC add-in board ecosystem. That 9% fall is not only because Navi 2x, but because AMD GPUs are losing appeal, probably because Nvidia leads and brings new features that puts AMD at a disadvantage.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Captain_Yuri said:
vivster said:

So I don't need to sell my 5900x?

Not until Alder lake in a few months

And even then, I'm not sure it's gonna be really faster or less consuming than it does right now - just that it goes beyond 10 cores for Intel on the desktop...



JEMC said:

Mummelmann said:

In my defense; I play good games as well. :P Currently finishing my second playthrough of Pathfinder Kingmaker (which actually made me go out and buy Pathfinder Pen & Paper system!).

My spring PC plans seem to have taken a hit though, with GPU's being rare as unicorns, no properly tempting display being released any time soon, and now RAM seems to be hurtling towards the sky in regards to price. I recently read that memory sticks were increasing in price by around 10% per day at online retailers here, this was at the end of February. Damn it!

First of all, thanks for acknowledging that Fifa isn't a good game XD.

Sadly, I didn't play RPGs back in the day, heck my first rol game was FF 7, and now those games like Pathfinder Kingmaker, Divinity or Pillars of Eternity seem to complex for a newby like me. But I plan to change that! I grabbed Pillars of Eternity when the EGS gave it away and I'll give it a go sooner or later (first I want to finish the trio of new Wolfenstein games, done with Old Blood and in the middle of New Order).

The PC hardware situation is sadly very disappointing. About this time last year I had to postpone my plan to upgrade half of my PC (new CPU and everything related to that, even RAM), but given how things have gone, I doubt I would have been able to upgrade without spending more money than necessary. Let's hope things start to settle down "soon" and prices go back to normal... whatever that means nowadays.

Pillars of Eternity would be highest on my list of recommended games of those you mentioned, it's not as complex as Kingmaker or the Divinity games. It's quite difficult though, you need to be strategic a lot of the time. Divinity is the better game of the lot, but Kingmaker, to me, is a bit more fun and it works on a system very familiar to me since I'm an old RPG nerd since the mid-'90s.



JEMC said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

The problem this year (well, last year) is that the new Radeons came late and due to the enormous demand on all their products (CPUs, GPUs and Consoles), can't nearly fulfill all of them. Consoles go first due to not delivering here would be a contract breach, and due to the limited capacities at TSMC, there's not much volume left for the CPUs and the GPUs.

The CPUs had the advantage that they came a bit earlier and that they are also needed in the very lucrative server market, meaning GPUs really just get the leftovers in terms of production capacities right now, and as such can't produce nearly enough to cover demand, even though it's quite lower than for NVidias GPUs. In fact, NVidia going for Samsung 8nm instead of TSMC could mean they dodged quite a bullet here in terms of production capacity, as while Samsung's capacity is also stretched, it still allowed for more than would have been possible with TSMC now.

Launching their products two months after the competition had a sure impact, but we're not talking about the sales of the last year but the whole PC add-in board ecosystem. That 9% fall is not only because Navi 2x, but because AMD GPUs are losing appeal, probably because Nvidia leads and brings new features that puts AMD at a disadvantage.

Fun fact: AMD actually increased the amount of GPUs sold.

The problem is that 2020 due to the lockdowns the total PC sales went up a lot, and NVidia took the lion's share of that increase.

Navi 2x is actually countering the appeal  argument since they are much more appealing already than anything they had since Hawaii or Fury. But before they only had the leftover Polaris and Vega, which are very outdated, and Navi, which didn't come with a high-end and couldn't quite keep up with NVidia in performance per watt and didn't come with Raytracing, making it still an inferior product even though it was a massive improvement over Vega.

I'm also not sure if AMD was affected with short supplies before in their GPUs; I saw the Sapphire and Powercolor cards (the only ones I would buy since they are by far and large above the fray) often going out of stock for some periods of time. Considering that the Zen 2 Ryzen 3 were very hard to find and AMD extending  production of Zen/Zen+ chips, I'm fairly sure AMD already in early 2020 had supply issues, and it only got worse for them from there.

Long story short, don't overdramatize the drop in market share as only a small part of it is due to product quality, and that one has improved a lot since then.

Edit:

I'm quoting Conina here from his steam thread:

Conina said:

So after some strange December data (f.e. the CPU charts and the huge RTX Turing jump from 12 to 17 percentage points), most charts are back to November levels (plus expected Ryzen gains):

They also changed some December data afterwards (f. e. Turing now shows 16% instead of 17% for December):

RDNA2 and RTX 3070 GPUs are still not shown... but the later released RTX 3060 Ti???

Even if RTX 3060 Ti and RTX 3090 numbers were added, there are probably a lot of new GPUs (RDNA 2 + RTX 3070) hidden in the "other" group, falsely counted as "DirectX 8 GPUs and below":  

As you can see, AMD actually marginally increased it's market share from 10.42% to 10.60% in 2020, and that's beside NVidias total dominance in laptop GPUs and the fact that Navi 2x is still missing in the charts due to still being somewhere in the DX8 group right now

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 06 March 2021

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Mummelmann said:
JEMC said:
Mummelmann said:

In my defense; I play good games as well. :P Currently finishing my second playthrough of Pathfinder Kingmaker (which actually made me go out and buy Pathfinder Pen & Paper system!).

...

First of all, thanks for acknowledging that Fifa isn't a good game XD.

Sadly, I didn't play RPGs back in the day, heck my first rol game was FF 7, and now those games like Pathfinder Kingmaker, Divinity or Pillars of Eternity seem to complex for a newby like me. But I plan to change that! I grabbed Pillars of Eternity when the EGS gave it away and I'll give it a go sooner or later (first I want to finish the trio of new Wolfenstein games, done with Old Blood and in the middle of New Order).

Pillars of Eternity would be highest on my list of recommended games of those you mentioned, it's not as complex as Kingmaker or the Divinity games. It's quite difficult though, you need to be strategic a lot of the time. Divinity is the better game of the lot, but Kingmaker, to me, is a bit more fun and it works on a system very familiar to me since I'm an old RPG nerd since the mid-'90s.

Noted. Thanks for the tips.

Bofferbrauer2 said:
JEMC said:

Launching their products two months after the competition had a sure impact, but we're not talking about the sales of the last year but the whole PC add-in board ecosystem. That 9% fall is not only because Navi 2x, but because AMD GPUs are losing appeal, probably because Nvidia leads and brings new features that puts AMD at a disadvantage.

Fun fact: AMD actually increased the amount of GPUs sold.

The problem is that 2020 due to the lockdowns the total PC sales went up a lot, and NVidia took the lion's share of that increase.

Navi 2x is actually countering the appeal  argument since they are much more appealing already than anything they had since Hawaii or Fury. But before they only had the leftover Polaris and Vega, which are very outdated, and Navi, which didn't come with a high-end and couldn't quite keep up with NVidia in performance per watt and didn't come with Raytracing, making it still an inferior product even though it was a massive improvement over Vega.

I'm also not sure if AMD was affected with short supplies before in their GPUs; I saw the Sapphire and Powercolor cards (the only ones I would buy since they are by far and large above the fray) often going out of stock for some periods of time. Considering that the Zen 2 Ryzen 3 were very hard to find and AMD extending  production of Zen/Zen+ chips, I'm fairly sure AMD already in early 2020 had supply issues, and it only got worse for them from there.

Long story short, don't overdramatize the drop in market share as only a small part of it is due to product quality, and that one has improved a lot since then.

Edit:

I'm quoting Conina here from his steam thread:

**too long to post it again**

As you can see, AMD actually marginally increased it's market share from 10.42% to 10.60% in 2020, and that's beside NVidias total dominance in laptop GPUs and the fact that Navi 2x is still missing in the charts due to still being somewhere in the DX8 group right now

I'm not making a drama out of it, son't worry. AMD has been well below the 20% of the market before and has managed to revive again, but they've always needed some kind of extra to pull that off, something they don't have right now.

That AMD has sold more cards than the year before is obviously good news, yet it's irrelevant if the competition managed to sell even more cards. We're not talking about making a profit but the marketshare of each one, and they lost a chunk of it.

Now, is AMD hurting more because of the supply problems than Nvidia given that they also need to make CPUs and console APUs? Sure, they probably are, but they knew when consoles would launch and when they were going to launch their own products so it's not just a supply problem but also one of bad management for not being able to book enough waffers at TSMC.

All I'm saying is that it's not all black and white and, while the circumstances are the way they are, AMD needs to improve if they really want to claw back part of the market from Nvidia like they did with Intel.

Oh, and don't be naughty, boffer, that DX8 group not only includes Navi 2x, but also Nvidia's 3070.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Altus has a new survey up which you can fill to let them know your preference if you like:

https://personacentral.com/atlus-2021-online-consumer-survey/

The only kicker is that it takes 45 minutes to complete it!

DF revisited Horizon Zero Dawn on PC to see if the patches did anything

TLDW: Lots of improvements and fixes but still has some issues left. Went from Disappointing to Okay.



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Captain_Yuri said:

DF revisited Horizon Zero Dawn on PC to see if the patches did anything

TLDW: Lots of improvements and fixes but still has some issues left. Went from Disappointing to Okay.

And huge performance improvements for GTX 1060 (probably also fpr other Pascal GPUs), it is now on par with the RX 580.



Alright so I think now that we have a good idea of where the CPUs and GPUs land, it's time to give out some recommendations! Now this is gonna be my own opinion thus it will have my own bias so feel free to make your own!

High End build:

CPU: Ryzen 5900X/5800X or Intel 10900k/10850k/11700k/10700k
GPU: 4k/1440P/Raster/RT/DLSS: Nvidia 3080 or 1440P/1080P/Raster/Okaysh RT: AMD 6800XT
RAM: G.Skill Trident Z CL 16 3600mhz 32GB
Motherboard: Asus Dark Hero for AMD or Asus Strix Z590-E for Intel.
PSU: Evga or Corsair 850 Watt
SSD: Western Digital SN850 for PCI-E 4.0 or Samsung 970 Evo for PCI-E 3.0
Case: Lian Li 011 Dynamic XL

Mid Ranged:

CPU: Ryzen 5800X/5600X or Intel 11700k/10700k/10600k
GPU: 1440p/1080p/Raster/RT/DLSS: Nvidia 3060 Ti/3070 - 1440P/1080P/Raster: AMD 6700XT
RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws V CL 16 3600mhz 16GB
Motherboard: MSI X570 Tomahawk / Asus TUF B550 for AMD or Gigabyte Aorus Elite Z590 / Asus Prime Z590P for Intel.
PSU: Evga or Corsair 750 Watt
SSD: Western Digital SN850 for PCI-E 4.0 or Samsung 970 Evo for PCI-E 3.0
Case: Lian Li Lancool 2 Mesh

From what I have seen, some of the Z590 motherboards are actually cheaper than the Z490 while giving you more features and having support for both 10th and 11th gen Intel CPUs. But it will obviously depend on the store and etc.

Personally I think the GPU line up is split into two main categories. High End and Mid Ranged. And based on the performance numbers, I think the 3080 is the key high end GPU and the 3060 Ti is the Key Mid Ranged GPU. It's only 10% slower than a 3070 while costing $100 less at MSRP. It also has the same memory bandwidth and capacity as the 3070. It's similar to how the 970 was vs the 980... Well before people found out about the gimped vram and false cuda core count on the 970 which hopefully won't happen this time around. Also you can save typically around $100-$150 if you don't get ram with RGB.

Last edited by Jizz_Beard_thePirate - on 06 March 2021

                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

JEMC said:

Oh, and don't be naughty, boffer, that DX8 group not only includes Navi 2x, but also Nvidia's 3070.

And a couple other things. I mean it continuously grew from 4.10% in October to now 8.64%. And I really doubt the Radeons and 3070 are together at 4.5% already.

But I really wonder what else is hidden in that DX8 group. Intel XE graphics, both the discrete and the iGPU variants, are almost certainly also in this group. However, I struggle to find anything else that could be in there. Some server/Workstation/Cryptomining GPUs maybe?