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Forums - General Discussion - Saving sex for marriage... Avoiding Lust

Dark_Lord_2008 on 15 August 2013

The average man simply does not have a chance unless he is a millionaire, billionaire,celebrity or a sports star. It is best for the average man to live his own life and not worry about approaching average to below average women that will probably reject him because he is not in the top 20% of men. Statistically 50% to 60% of marriages end up in divorce and the women end up winning custody of the kids and the man loses most from the divorce. Marriage is simply not worth the risk for most men. 



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sales2099 on 15 August 2013
Calmador said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
Calmador said:
Its there...

Matthew 15:19-21

19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

Ezekiel 16:26
Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger

1 Corinthians 6:9–10
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 

The Ezekiel verse is the most clear verse from anyone's point of view.


When I gave you that "master verse" basically it implies that any sex that is not within a marriage (between a man and a woman) is an evil thing. That's why things like beastiality and sex before marriage is wrong.

This is easily a Christian stance.

Actually, there were a number of posters that supported this view... Christian and non-Christain. Joseph in the old testament, in the book of Genesis... before the Greeks even existed resisted sex with a governer's wife...which would be fornication. Joseph wasn't married and he called this a wicked thing. Also, that Ezekiel verse is probably in a time before the Greeks even existed.

I don't look for admiration in anybody. If people mock me or not doesn't mean a thing to me. This is for your sake and anyone else who reads' sake.

Again, no it isn't.  You really need to stop Bible quoting, especially from the english version.

In the quotes you're using there, the original Greek terminology was "pornea".  This was incorrectly tranlated to "fornication" in the King James.  The problem is that there isn't really a proper single word for pornea in modern english, because it is a contextual word.  It's kinda like "Tebowing".  If St Paul was telling you not to "Tebow" you would know what he meant if you followed American Football.  You know it meant not to kneel and pray after scoring a touchdown.  13 centeries from now though, the reference wouldn't be understood and you might try to come up with terms like "celebrate a victory" or something of that nature, but that is too general.

The Corinthians back in the day had a great temple you could go to.  The operators of said temple rounded up women as sexual slaves.  If you were a farmer hoping for a good crop you could go and pay for some sex with the sex slaves and not only could you get your rocks off, but it was supposed to make your crops grow well too.  This activity was called "pornea" by the people of the day.  Can't beat that deal!  Except for the forced prostitution and the fact that most of these farmers would probably be married and thus cheating on their wives.

So when you see people in the Bible telling people not to pornea, they are telling them that paying sex slaves for sex to help your crops grow is wrong.  I think most of us would agree with that.  They are not saying pre-marital sex is wrong.

Also, in your completely irrelevent example, Joseph resisted sex with a governor's wife.  Of course sex with a governor's wife is wrong!  She's married!  That's what we call coveting a neighbors wife.  That's one of the 10 God-given commandments.

No, there is no reference to two non-married people having free, consentual, sex because they love each other as a bad thing.  There are examples of good men having multiple wives, but that's another topic all together.  The idea of no sex until marriage is a societal control that became more common in Victorian England (before this almost 40% of first pregnancies were pre-marriage).  It has no Bible basis.

I commend you for wanting to be a virgan until marriage if that's what makes you happy.  It's probably a healthy and safe lifestyle.  But don't try to say it's the right thing to do because the Bible says so and that others are doing something wrong.  Risking disease or unplanned pregnacy or emotional scars, sure, but they may also enjoy love, happiness and other wonderful things through a pre-marriage sexual relationship.  And avoiding sexual relationships could also cause sadness or loneliness, and judging others is definitly wrong.  Leave that to God.


I looked it up. I saw that ponea was used and see where your coming from. But, no fornication is still clearly wrong according to what Jesus and Paul both taught...

(copied and pasted from another of my posts on this thread)

Fornication is clearly implied by both Jesus and Paul the apostle ... and I think Paul is a lot more direct.

Jesus

Mat 5:27-28

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


Lusting alone is immoral and sexual immorality... fornication, would fall under that. This can also imply, pornography and masterbation... things that will cause or need lust.

 

Paul

 

1 Cor. 7:8-9

8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.


Paul says it is better to marry... than burn (in lustful passion)... since Godly teaching would teach us to refrain from fornicating. Hence, its possible to "burn."

I'm soooo gonna save these verses.

Just seems something that might be relevant 2000 years ago when the average life expectancy was the low 30's and when people got married at age 13. I think by and large Christianity is modernizing with the times and sex before marriage isn't preached as much as it used to be.

At the very least, if you can't masturbate, or have sex until marriage.......you will be prone to stress, irritability, and sexual frustration. Relieving these urges is not only natural, but essential to a better day-to-day life.

I consider myself a devout Catholic, but I also draw the line with certain things. I love my gf and am always faithful so IMO I am doing nothing wrong in the eyes of God.  I say my penance every Sunday so its all good :)



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Calmador on 24 August 2013
sales2099 said:
Calmador said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
Calmador said:
Its there...

Matthew 15:19-21

19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

Ezekiel 16:26
Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger

1 Corinthians 6:9–10
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 

The Ezekiel verse is the most clear verse from anyone's point of view.


When I gave you that "master verse" basically it implies that any sex that is not within a marriage (between a man and a woman) is an evil thing. That's why things like beastiality and sex before marriage is wrong.

This is easily a Christian stance.

Actually, there were a number of posters that supported this view... Christian and non-Christain. Joseph in the old testament, in the book of Genesis... before the Greeks even existed resisted sex with a governer's wife...which would be fornication. Joseph wasn't married and he called this a wicked thing. Also, that Ezekiel verse is probably in a time before the Greeks even existed.

I don't look for admiration in anybody. If people mock me or not doesn't mean a thing to me. This is for your sake and anyone else who reads' sake.

Again, no it isn't.  You really need to stop Bible quoting, especially from the english version.

In the quotes you're using there, the original Greek terminology was "pornea".  This was incorrectly tranlated to "fornication" in the King James.  The problem is that there isn't really a proper single word for pornea in modern english, because it is a contextual word.  It's kinda like "Tebowing".  If St Paul was telling you not to "Tebow" you would know what he meant if you followed American Football.  You know it meant not to kneel and pray after scoring a touchdown.  13 centeries from now though, the reference wouldn't be understood and you might try to come up with terms like "celebrate a victory" or something of that nature, but that is too general.

The Corinthians back in the day had a great temple you could go to.  The operators of said temple rounded up women as sexual slaves.  If you were a farmer hoping for a good crop you could go and pay for some sex with the sex slaves and not only could you get your rocks off, but it was supposed to make your crops grow well too.  This activity was called "pornea" by the people of the day.  Can't beat that deal!  Except for the forced prostitution and the fact that most of these farmers would probably be married and thus cheating on their wives.

So when you see people in the Bible telling people not to pornea, they are telling them that paying sex slaves for sex to help your crops grow is wrong.  I think most of us would agree with that.  They are not saying pre-marital sex is wrong.

Also, in your completely irrelevent example, Joseph resisted sex with a governor's wife.  Of course sex with a governor's wife is wrong!  She's married!  That's what we call coveting a neighbors wife.  That's one of the 10 God-given commandments.

No, there is no reference to two non-married people having free, consentual, sex because they love each other as a bad thing.  There are examples of good men having multiple wives, but that's another topic all together.  The idea of no sex until marriage is a societal control that became more common in Victorian England (before this almost 40% of first pregnancies were pre-marriage).  It has no Bible basis.

I commend you for wanting to be a virgan until marriage if that's what makes you happy.  It's probably a healthy and safe lifestyle.  But don't try to say it's the right thing to do because the Bible says so and that others are doing something wrong.  Risking disease or unplanned pregnacy or emotional scars, sure, but they may also enjoy love, happiness and other wonderful things through a pre-marriage sexual relationship.  And avoiding sexual relationships could also cause sadness or loneliness, and judging others is definitly wrong.  Leave that to God.


I looked it up. I saw that ponea was used and see where your coming from. But, no fornication is still clearly wrong according to what Jesus and Paul both taught...

(copied and pasted from another of my posts on this thread)

Fornication is clearly implied by both Jesus and Paul the apostle ... and I think Paul is a lot more direct.

Jesus

Mat 5:27-28

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


Lusting alone is immoral and sexual immorality... fornication, would fall under that. This can also imply, pornography and masterbation... things that will cause or need lust.

 

Paul

 

1 Cor. 7:8-9

8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.


Paul says it is better to marry... than burn (in lustful passion)... since Godly teaching would teach us to refrain from fornicating. Hence, its possible to "burn."

I'm soooo gonna save these verses.

Just seems something that might be relevant 2000 years ago when the average life expectancy was the low 30's and when people got married at age 13. I think by and large Christianity is modernizing with the times and sex before marriage isn't preached as much as it used to be.

At the very least, if you can't masturbate, or have sex until marriage.......you will be prone to stress, irritability, and sexual frustration. Relieving these urges is not only natural, but essential to a better day-to-day life.

I consider myself a devout Catholic, but I also draw the line with certain things. I love my gf and am always faithful so IMO I am doing nothing wrong in the eyes of God.  I say my penance every Sunday so its all good :)





All gaming systems, consoles/PC, have thier perks... why fight over preferences? I like Coke and you like Pepsi, that's it, let's not fight over which toy we like best cause that's what they are. Is someone's preference in a toy important or is the relationship between you and your neighbor more important? Answer is obvious, but THE most important thing is your relationship with God almighty. God Bless you in Jesus's name.

I can communicate without talking... I can send a loved one money without actually sending money... and I can commit theft without the product disappearing, the point of theft is the point of theft not one of it's possible symptoms which is the product dissappearing. The thief wants to gain something without paying for it, that's the point of theft, the thief doesn't have to care or anybody else has to care if the product dissappears. The product dissappearing is just a possible symptom of theft. Gifts are sacrfices, in order to give a gift, it has to be a genuine sacrfice/gift, meaning a copy of the game isn't still in your PC. Piracy is theft and/or being a culprit of theft.

Calmador on 24 August 2013
sales2099 said:

Just seems something that might be relevant 2000 years ago when the average life expectancy was the low 30's and when people got married at age 13. I think by and large Christianity is modernizing with the times and sex before marriage isn't preached as much as it used to be.

At the very least, if you can't masturbate, or have sex until marriage.......you will be prone to stress, irritability, and sexual frustration. Relieving these urges is not only natural, but essential to a better day-to-day life.

I consider myself a devout Catholic, but I also draw the line with certain things. I love my gf and am always faithful so IMO I am doing nothing wrong in the eyes of God.  I say my penance every Sunday so its all good :)


So, the text in the Bible just change...  Its well known among Christians that saving sex for marriage is the way. If you think its going to change maybe its because of the people YOU hang around with because my impression is that your just a poser Christain.

Why? You bring up the Bible and say it doesn't say saving sex for marriage is a must. You use the Bible basically as an authority... YET when I show you the Bible shows that saving sex for marriage is a must... you throw it out the window and say,"I make lines" ... huh? What? You make lines? As in you make your own morality?

Please don't say your Christian and no its not all good with you. Later



All gaming systems, consoles/PC, have thier perks... why fight over preferences? I like Coke and you like Pepsi, that's it, let's not fight over which toy we like best cause that's what they are. Is someone's preference in a toy important or is the relationship between you and your neighbor more important? Answer is obvious, but THE most important thing is your relationship with God almighty. God Bless you in Jesus's name.

I can communicate without talking... I can send a loved one money without actually sending money... and I can commit theft without the product disappearing, the point of theft is the point of theft not one of it's possible symptoms which is the product dissappearing. The thief wants to gain something without paying for it, that's the point of theft, the thief doesn't have to care or anybody else has to care if the product dissappears. The product dissappearing is just a possible symptom of theft. Gifts are sacrfices, in order to give a gift, it has to be a genuine sacrfice/gift, meaning a copy of the game isn't still in your PC. Piracy is theft and/or being a culprit of theft.